should I get DS1 vaccinated?

[thisisyesterday]

just curious as to what other parents of children with autism/asd feel about vaccinations now?

DS1 had his baby jabs, but not the MMR.
he is now 7 and has been diagnosed with HFA

My plan initially was to give him single jabs when he was about 9 or 10, but now of course you can't get a single mumps jab- the one that was most important to me
so he would have to have the MMR...

I've read stuff from both sides, I just don't know what to do, feel like i'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

what did YOU do?

Well it really is going to be different for everyone.

Ds1 was fully vaccinated until 18 months when we stopped, and has had nothing since. His regression followed a viral infection, there is a lot of autoimmunity in the family and the research showing that autism in some cases seems to accompany a dysfunctional immune system was just beginning to be published. I didn't want to expose him to viruses he might otherwise not meet.

DS2 and Ds3 have had nothing. I figured they were fairly likely to share a ropey immune system. 7 and 10 years later I think this was very much the correct decision for ds3 who has the same sort of immune reactions as ds1, possibly not so important for ds2. The decision may be altered in the future (or they may make a different decision) and there are jabs I would give ds2 possibly if there were singles available. (Tetanus and measles mainly).

DS1 is a simplex case of autism however, and the inheritance of that is believed to be different from multiplex cases - not sure whether that's relevant to you.

You are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't, and you can only make the decision for your family iyswim.

I vaccinated my two oldest nt children, however I'm not going to give mmr to my third who has GDD - know personally children whose development regressed after the jab, and that's what I decided. But it's up to everybody, good we have a choice. There are many countries where vaccinations are mandatory and I would be taken to court.

thanks jimjams.
we don't have any auto-immune conditions in the immediate family, but we do have quite a few family members who almost certainly have ASD (tho not diagnosed) so fairly sure he is a MA case (we suspect DS3 is also on the spectrum)

as I type I'm trying to wade through some medical papers on autism and inheritance and things like that but I am not a medical person so finding it hard going I might even have to ask DP to read it for me and then give me the lowdown lol

I think if I knew that the mumps vaccine would become available again in the future I would just hang on and do that, but there is no sign of it being produced ever again. gah.

I have no real reason to suspect he would react to it I suppose. I have cousins who've had bad vaccine reactions, but DS1 didn't react to his baby jabs- at least, not noticeably

babiki yes, am very thankful that we have a choice in this! even if it is an incredibly hard choice to make

Ds had vaccines up to 18months. This included the MMR. His autism signs started around 10 weeks which was just before he had any jabs.

Dd had vaccines up to 8 months, and not the MMR. I stopped jabs with them both when I researched the MMR.

DS is not having any until I have figured out his profile, - which tbh will be guesswork.

From my research I am not especially concerned about the MMR for MY family but I am now about some of the other jabs. In fact for MY family the measles jab is probably sensible and I'll likely get the single, but having two boys I'd like the mumps later which means yet another dose of measles .

My brother has a very serious autoimmune disease that has had him receieving a Dx of terminal illness twice, of which one of the known causes is the DTP. Despite that I'd give the t, but it isn't available alone and in any case two others have been thrown in.

It's a friggin minefield.

it really is isn't it?

my younger 2 haven't been vaccinated at all and tbh i've been a bit head in the sand about it all for quite a while now, but got thinking about it the other day as DS1 is getting older and I really need to make a decision one way or t'other!

if anyone has any links to anything they think would be helpful then do post I may be rather braindead, but DP is still mostly functioning in the brain department lol

I just wish there was more choice, more education of HCPs and for me to have a level of faith in the governments agenda.

There are risks to not vaccinating. I'm scared shitless at he thought of diphtheria (although there is an antidote if you're fairly quick). I'm also worried out of my mind about the damage the DTP might have done to Ds and dd who in looks take after my DB.

But where can I got to get reliable information, support, consultation etc?

I have to do the best I can with the information I can find which I barely understand. My GP hasn't even heard of my DBs disease which has killed his kidneys and potentially his eye sight. How can he advise? But can I get a referral to someon who can? No. I'm told categorically that the DTP is safe and that my DBs condition dismissed as if I made I up.

The trouble is HCP's are just taught ways to persuade you to vaccinate. My friend is a practice nurse and has unvaccinated children and she struggled ethically with the vaccination course. She said there was no discussion at all, it was just about how to persuade reluctant parents.

Hope you don't mind me joining this thread, I'm so worried about this too.
I had a phone call from GP's surgery about two months ago, to ask me to bring DD (3.6) in for her MMR booster - where we live, they've moved delivery forward by one year. I said she was a bit under the weather and I would be in touch about it at a later date a. The receptionist then gave me a bit of lecture about how really important for DD to have the vaccination as soon as possible etc.

I am worried because there is quite a few auto-immune problems in our family. DS (NT) is up to date with all injections. No problems at all seemingly, apart from the booster MMR; he had a massive infection at injection site for which he had to get anti-bacs. About two months later, he had an episode of ITP- an auto-immune platelet disorder. DH has had to undergo three major surgeries for a completely different auto-immune disease, which he developed at age 20.
So with DD, I just don't know what to do in respect of booster. She had MMR at normal time and didn't appear to have any problems. About one month later, she had regression of speech etc - I am not saying the MMR was linked, but it gives me pause for thought.
My sis is a GP. She very much believes that the risk of illnesses outweigh potential problems with injections, and says that DD should have booster as soon as possible. I get what she is saying about the risk of illnesses, but I am so worried that DD might regress again if she has the booster.
I know that this is such a controversial subject, but was just wondering if anyone any advice.

It is SUCH a personal decision, and a very heated debate...

DS is fully vaccinated per the schedule in our province. In addition, he receives the influenza shot every year (along with the rest of our family).

DD is also fully vaccinated, but it was done more slowly. Because of her fragility, we decided the risk to her from the diseases was greater than the vaccinations. She does have widely varying immune responses, and gets ODD infections, but we are comfortable with our decisions. We were even more reassured that for us, we had made the right choice in the spring of 2011. She became critically ill, her bone marrow shut down entirely and she lost the ability to clot. In a desperate attempt to figure out why she was sick, they did a viral swab that came back positive for influenza B, for which she had been vaccinated. She hadn't had so much as a sniffle, but the flu nearly killed her (and may well have if she hadn't been immunized). Because of the infection, she developed an autoimmune response to her own body, and attacked her own liver, bone marrow and platelets. Once the viral infection ran its course, the rest slowly resolved too, but she never did return to baseline.

So yeah, my reasons for continuing to vaccinate are pretty personal, and compelling to my family at least.

Marchduck in your case I really would not give the booster- but just my personal opinion. There are organisations out there who would support you, many people do not vaccinate. I kow it is difficult to decide as we are not proffesionals and opinions are divided.

Thanks all, and good luck Thisisyesterday with whatever you decide.

Marchduck - what I will say is that once you tell them you're not doing it they usually back off. You could have an antibody titre (you will have to pay for it probably) if you want to get your sister off your case, but GP or not it is none of her business.

Ask her to comment on the ongoing research into autism and the immune system dysfuntion (unless she's a GP who keeps very up to date she probably doesn't even know about it).

Anyway do remember whatever you decide it's for you and your husband to make that decision as you'll be the ones who have to live with the consequences if your decision.

so, is the real risk to those with history of AI disorders in the family?
do you think that having none (that i'm aware of) and DS1's HFA likely being hereditary rather than a one-off he is in a safer place for having the vaccination?

Saintly, thank you very much for that. I wasn't aware of the antibody titre, so I will look into it - and I'll be trying to read some of the research you've mentioned.
I love my sister to bits, but I think I probably know more about autism now than she does. When I told her that the MDA team had decided to refer DD to ASD assessment clinic, she said that she was surprised and that she thought DD was too affectionate and sociable to have ASD! The type of work she does means that she has no contact with children at all and she is about to start a new hospital job working mainly with elderly patients - maybe just as well....

Interesting, thisisyesterday. My DS2 had his first MMR, but not his second. My DS3 hasn't had either MMR but they have had all other vaccs. I think the autism is likely to be hereditary due to eccentric and quirky relatives on their father's side and the fact that DS3 is also pretty quirky. Perhaps it's time to give DS3 his MMR?

Tbh thisisyesterday I don't know. It might be worth googling multiplex autism immune dysfunction to see what comes up. Even that won't tell you though about any possible MMR effect (or not).

We were told ds1 'definitely' wasn't autistic as he was too affectionate by a supposed autism specialist

Leonie/Saintly, if only it was true....
I'm not good with technology so I can't work out how to put on the emotions symbols - but I'm thinking the wee sad blue one!

Thisisyesterdays, that is the conclusion I may well have come to in your position.

As you can see from my post, I haven't a clue really. But that's not my fault. I have TRIED but been met with dishonesty and unintentional bollocks. All I can do is form my own opinions with the information available to me and my understanding in the area. I don't feel it is of a good enough standard though to feel comfortable influencing the decisions of others.

What I DO know though, is that I'm a hellova lot more knowledgable than many of the HCPs I've come across. Which leaves the whole thing a bit 'meh'.

ahh yes, being affectionate was on my list of reasons why DS3 might not be autistic... then I posted on here about him lol

thank you ALL for sharing your stories on this thread though, regarding vaccinating. It really is such a hard decision to make, and while I still haven't made my mind up I do have some more reading to do and it is nice to know I'm not alone.
And also nice to have somewhere that I could post this without it turning into a massive vax debate!!!

My honest opinion - i would not give him the MMR, go for the single injections, mumps is a tricky one, i know several children who have caught mumps even though they have had the MMR (so its not 100% effective).

My dd's were vaccinated, dd2 was diagnosed with ASD after her first MMR, i then didn't want to vaccinate her the 2nd time but my gp kept phoning me and telling me 'all will be ok, she already has ASD so whats to worry about?' so i went ahead with it. The next day she ended up in A&E with a very high fever, she went limp and her eyes were rolling so i panicked, she was very poorly but made a speedy reccovery and i was able to take her home later that day. She did not reggress after the 2nd MMR but it made me think more about the 1st MMR and how she reacted, before the first MMR we had no concerns abut ASD (even though her older sister had a dx of AS), he eye contact was good, she responded to our voice but was non-verbal, after the MMR she gradually lost the eye contact and would not respond when we called her name, her sleep got worse and she showed more signs of being like her older sister.

i am not sure I can not vaccinate against mumps though, that's the thing. it is, IMO, the worst of the 3 for boys.
i wouldn't probably bother with rubella, but wanted to do mumps and measles... argh!
would probably pay for testing to see if he was immune afterwards too?

but if i want him to have mumps then right now that means having the MMR.

maybe I should wait and see if they do ever bring back the mumps single vaccine, although I think that's unlikely. I'm not generally a conspiracy theory type person, but I can't help but think how odd it is to suddenly withdraw the one vaccine that would then force a whole lot of parents (like me) to take the MMR when we otherwise wouldn't.