why dosnt my ds tell me things?

[latterlov3r]

I know this isnt exactly SN but i usually post here and value the advice. Ds 6 (who most know has some mild sensory issues and other habits) goes to play outside the house with a friend most days (directly in front of house visable from sofa) but when this friend isnt around he tries to play with others in the street who usually shun him or play with him for 10 mins then leave ds seems far more vunerable than these children and i often watch out and listen when hes out there. The other day one of the local boys decided they didnt want to play with ds anymore ds kept saying 'please dont go' the boy was storming away telling ds to go away in a nasty tome but ds kept following him then he was snapping at ds for getting his 'him' and 'hers' mixed up he often does this it was obvious to me that this boy didnt want to play so as ds walked back to garden head down looking sad i went and spoke to him. I asked what happened he said 'nothing' i asked if boy was being nasty he said no i told ds what i heard and he again said no and that the boy just didnt want to play anymore, ds is like this with everything anything i try to talk to him about he says 'i dont know' he acts like hes frightened that he dosnt know fingers in mouth, scared face, fake shaking i have no idea why he does this.

He will stand in the garden for hours and hours (not wanting to come in) waiting on a friend to play but nobody seems to want to for more than a few minutes and they are off again dh thinks i need to allow him to go further as the other kids in the street are allowed to go into neighbouring streets but i think hes too young and trusting, the other day i caught him talking to 3 teens who were obviously to me trying to intimidate him (by their body language) i went out and got him in asked him what they were saying but he said 'nothing' i could see them talking though and him talking so hes lying i did get out of him that he told them what house he lives in! ive now said to him its garden only from now on but dh thinks thats far to OTT is it? i know he CAN read people because he knows when me, dh or his brother are angry, upset etc any advice on this would be great

Latter,

What do you mean by mild sensory issues and habits? I really recognise your Ds in mine who has a full blown Dx of ASD as well as Speach and Language impairment.

Would you consider that he doesn't tell you things because he can't? My Ds is exceptionally verbal on his favourite and wide ranging topics and own agenda but can't answer anything but the most simple and concrete of questions.

hi ive posted quite a bit about ds before so dont want to bore people again but basically hes always fidgeting and running around is very over friendly with people, always bouncing about, touching everything he sees, walking on tiptoes, poor awareness of personal space, smells things etc he was seen by an OT at 5 and they said sensory seeking issues but offered nothing further, other things i think are maybe related like not knowing he needs toilet until last second, being OBSESSED with food talks about it constantly, talks to himself constantly about nonsence or has conversations with people that arnt there or himself when not talking makes stupid noises. Always wants to know whats happening next and whos doing what when and where but copes fine if things dont go to plan just likes asking questions i think, fixates on things that are meant to happen and goes on and on about it, can never amuse himself is always 'bored' really short attention span isnt intrested in me reading to him etc takes to long, dosnt play with his toys ever except his little cars and his dr who stuff although seems to prefer just looking at them but has a need for every toy he sees and will play with other peoples.

He has seen a speech therapist for his stammer although thats now much better and only apparent when he excited or over stimulated, been discharged ST said hes at a level with his peers although personally i think hes really hard to have a conversation with unless its something HE wants to tell you otherwise its just 'i dont knows' or changes subject.

I have started to wonder if he just dosnt know how to get his point across but even when i ask questions that only need a yes or no he still seems to refuse to acknowledge the truth, dh thinks he understands fine but is being difficult. I told him 3 times today not to leave the garden each time i caught him outside the gate i tried finding out WHY he wont do as hes told and he with says ' i dont know' or cries at me, he cries ALOT

Has he ever been seen by an autism or developmental specialist?

no he was referred from nursery to speech therapist from there to OT he had a block of OT therapy in nursery once per week then the summer holidays came apparently OT was removed from area, i chased up to find he had been 'lost' in the switch new OT didnt want to see me at all agreed to view ds in school for 30 mins and concluded all fine, gave school a move n sit cushion and discharged him

DS2 is not good at telling me things that have happened. We have worked with him to the point where he can sometimes recognise when he is sad - or at least he says he is sad. He can't always say why, but usually I'll just say "come be sad with mummy.." so he'll sit with me and cuddle. If I ask him "what will make you happy?" then sometimes he'll say something that will tell me what made him sad IYSWIM. Sort of getting the info the roundabout way.

Does he know when he is feeling sad? would you be able to approach it from a "can tell me why you are sad" rather than "what happened?"

if i asked him why he was sad he would just be adamant that he wasnt even if i say i seen him looking sad he wouldnt admit it to me i have no idea why.

School covered a block on emotions what different faces were etc happy sad worried scared they took photos of him pulling these faces and he pulls them to fit the situation like stock responses

Under assessment DS could understand differences in emotions but he cannot empathise with it because although he can relate seeing tears with hurt or upset and a smile to a happy face he cant FEEL or read the body language or what the other person is feeling or stating iyswim.

We are only now getting to the stage where he can tell us that he is feeling sad but he still has a confused look on his face at the same time as if he is unsure and is mixing it up. Its taking a while :)

I think that the questions you are asking your DS are much too complex. I think it might be better to stick to statements "huh, so they didn't want to play. [nice-kid] usually wants to play", always in a matter-of-fact voice. After a few weeks, that might elicit a "but he's not here" that takes the dialogue forward.

I think that, given the areas where your DS struggles, he's doing really really well to have one friend outside the back door. He doesn't sound ready for more wide ranging playing out. I don't think he understands enough of the unwritten rules of playing out yet.

thank you for the replies, lingle ive done that before if he says x dosnt want to play with me i say thats ok some kids dont want to be nice but x (nice friend) plays with you and he will say 'but hes not here' then go into how much he wants him because he is the best he is quite obsessive with this friend talks about him all the time sits and stares at his house looks for the car etc almost pining for him even if they have spent all day playing together he will cry and tantrum when its time to stop but this might be normal 6 year old stuff?

dh thinks ds wont learn how to play if i dont let him roam with the others but im not convinced

I'm with you rather than your DH. It's only great to play out on the street if you have the skills to play successfully.

I don't think the tantrumming is normal, no. I think it's a sign that his social skills are well below average and need working on. I have no expertise or opinion on what kind of label or diagnosis, etc, that may or may not indicate.

It's hard for me, but sometimes other kids don't want to play with my 6 year old. I could describe those kids as "nasty" but they aren't - they are irritated and confused by his eccentricities. The only way forward is to work on those eccentricities. My son doesn't learn any lessons at all if I blame the other children. But he does learn if I say things like "people don't like it if you tell them lots of rules", "that child likes to change games more often than you do", "sometimes people want to play, sometimes they don't, and that's the way it is" "in this house you are always welcome and always wanted. On the street, people will sometimes want to play with you and sometimes they won't" "it annoys people if you try to play with them all the time" and so on and so forth.

These are the lessons my child simply has to learn. Many other kids pick up these things instinctively. He doesn't, so I have to tell him. Blaming the other kids won't show him the way forward, won't help him with future relationships.

Have a look at a book called "The Unwritten Rules of Friendship" - that gives some good guidance on things to say and things not to say.

Wot Lingle said. Also, you want to keep the whole playing with others as positive an experience as possible, so don't send him like a lamb to 'play' with children than will upset him. I find with Ds that uninitiated children can tolerate him for short bursts only, do I give him, and importantly THEM a break from the situation after ds has given it his best and before it starts to deteriorate.

Ds leaves wanting more, and the others leave not too put off for another day. I also try to explain to Ds.

yeah ive tried telling him that sometimes children dont want to play but he just pulls a sad face and says but i want to, hes still not great at sharing and doing what others want to do today he was playing with his older cousins and there was lots of stamping feet and 'its not fairs' being screamed from him because his cousins didnt want to play the same thing as him or they were doing something he didnt want them to like singing etc i kept saying things like 'you have to take turns, play x's game for a little while' etc but he just stamps and grumps or cries, i will look up that book thanks

starlight = i dont ever try and get him to play with other children i dont have to ds will try and play with everyone wether they want to or not he just goes up to them and tries to play or if hes in the garden shouts their name repeatedly even if they blank him i try and get him not to do that if its clear they are not intrested but he does not listen at all

You are right to keep him close to the house.

You could be describing my DS to a tee, he has a full diagnosis of autism.

I would ask for an assessment by a developmental paediatrician. An assessment and diagnosis (whatever it may be) could help you understand your DS better, and help your DH accept he shouldn't be able to wander out of the street on his own .

My DS can talk on and on but finds it very hard to communicate things that have happened or been said. For example I have found it he has been bullied by a class mate telling me, or seen with my own eyes children being physically cruel to him and he can't talk to me about it, even if I ask him direct, closed questions.

Our children are vulnerable, and unfortunately other people can tell and can take advantage of this. I personally don't think any 6 year old should be "roaming" about on their own!

fwiw my ds1 (dx ASD, is aspie) would do pretty much the same -and he's 11. Things don't transfer, and anything that is more subtle and requires theory of mind (understanding what someone else has done and why they've done it/ why they said whatever to him) is pretty much lost as he doesn't understand it therefore doesn't remember it iyswim. If you heard a bunch of gobbledegook words, you would struggle to repeat it. That might be what he's hearing. If there is a processing issue (as my ds) or a social understanding difficulty, then the other kids might as well be talking a different language. He can't relay what they've said if it's not significant enough to remember, if you see what I mean? In addition there might be perspective differences. DS1 gets accused of telling lies/fibs quite regularly, including by me but when he explains it, it's a perspective thing nine times out of ten. Which could be him 'misinterpreting' social situations. These days he is very good at getting an understanding of what he's seen and how it differs from what others see, and we spend far too much time discussing it. good luck :)

It sounds hard latterlove - in his own way, he sounds like quite a strong character, and as mums we are hard-wired to know the lovely side of our children and be annoyed if other children are not seeing it.

DS2 has now just(!) grown out of shouting if I say his friend can't come over on a Friday....

I've always maintained it's harder for people with very verbal children because their skill with words masks their problems understanding. With my lads, their problems understanding were very clear.

The cousins could be your greatest asset long-term. They're relatives so can't opt out completely. How old are they?

By the way, can he read? Making signs or writing signs is often more effective for guiding children with these issues than talking/explaining. (LOL - last year we had lots of people over for a weekend - DS2 was annoyed at them not following his rules but had progressed enough not to tantrum - so he went off and made signs with instructions like on road-signs - it didn't work but by the time he'd finished the sign, the other kids had finished with the activity that annoyed him!).

I definately wont be letting him roaming about and your right i agree that any 6 year old shouldnt be but it seems to be the norm around here sadly, i often think hes got problems processing language as he often repeats things you say back to you and asks loads of questions to sort of clarify what i said, as for theory of mind im not sure i have done the sally anne test with him and he passed that.
his cousins are a good bit older 10 and 11 and he dosnt see them often they are pretty happy to play with him thankfully i think they get a bit exhausted though as ds never lets up hes pretty intense and wants to play all day. No he cant read yet more than a few words which is strange and his teacher tells me his reading is fine but thats another story

When i watch ds out playing i can spot the difference immediatly between him and others, the way he follows them about sort of on the outside looking in but trying to talk and get involved but just seems shunned because he asks silly questions and repeats stuff alot, the sulking face and body language whenever its not going his way, the faces he pulls, the stammer, the way he wants to shoot everyone with sound effects and play cybermen wether they want to or not lol, i even think he sometimes stands and runs awkwardly but not all the time, dh thinks im seeing things that arnt there but i dont think he'd ever admit there was anything wrong with ds.

He sounds so much like my DS .

Down my street kids don't play out, but the next street along is full of them out at all hours! DS plays in our back garden and TBH is usually happier when he's not trying to fit in. I would work on finding one or two kids who are laid back and who your DS likes (relatives, classmate, nice neighbourhood kid), and invite them to play at yours. Keep visits short and supervise lightly (just keep an ear out for bossyness for example).