Toilet training regime attempt 1000000 starting tomorrow. (rocks in corner)

[boredandrestless]

DS 7 (asd) is in pull ups for bowel movements. He's done the whole constipation + withholding vicious cycle and is now convinced pooing on the toilet will hurt. Never had any bother with wees. He's overcome toilet phobia, he no longer thinks he will fall in, no longer scared of flush, will sit on it, etc. He likes being squashed by the pull ups, doesn't like change, and is happy to sit in his own poo and not tell me.

Saw paediatrician today and he has advised a stern no nonsense approach of throwing away the pull ups, quadrupling his movicol dose, and doing LOTS of sitting on the toilet. Little reward if he tries, bigger reward if he poos, no wii game if he soils pants.

He breaks off school tomorrow for the 6 weeks so that's going to be when we start.

I'm hanging on by a thread already, soo tired and fed up. Nearly cried in doctors office when he told DS pull ups where for babies. (I know they are but DS as been bullied with this exact phrase and struck a nerve) It's going to be such a faff and I'm going to be scrubbing pooey pants out!

Don't get me wrong I want him out of his pull ups and in pants like every one else but everything feels like such a slog.

tired.com

Oh I feel for you! I have no advice but have been there too. I would so like ds to be fully able and comfortable with all things toilet related too!
How is your ds? Does he want to leave to leave pull ups behind and does he have enough awareness to get to the loo on time?
Good luck!

He definitely does NOT want to leave the pull ups behind. He hates change and likes the squeezy feeling of them, and doesn't care one jot that most 7 year olds would be embarassed to be in pull ups.

He definitely has awareness of when he needs to go - trouble is he doesn't want it to come out!

I've had 7 years of changing him. I'm sick of the judgemental stares and comments. I'm sick of changing him. I feel sad he has been picked on about it, etc. I'd love for him to be all sorted I really would.

Hopefully increasing the movicol by so much will mean odds are some poo will come out while he's sitting on the loo, and I'm hoping after a few times he will get it into his head that it DOESN'T hurt to poo on the loo. He's just stuck on the thought that it will like a broken record and no logic, reasoning, repeated conversations, or bribes, will change his mind!

Can you tell this is a sore point for me??

Hi Bored, just wanted to wish you luck. I wish I had some constructive advice, but it was really my mum that got my DD going with toilet training - I had got nowhere despite many attempts!
I have lovely and very understanding colleagues in work, but I had to smile wryly when I overheard two of them talking yesterday about how toilet training was such a breeze with their toddlers. I had thought the same with my DS - then DD came along and wasn't quite as co-operative...
Hope it goes well

Oh good luck. I think the paed's advice seems pretty sound. Know exactly how you feel about the constant ordeal and slog - and having to gear yourself up for an extra ordeal. But it will be worth it.

For us it has been a year almost to the day (see, it was such a milestone I even remember the exact date ) since ds came out of pull-ups for poo. And we still have to use a reward of 5 mins on ipad for going on his own. And public toilets are still a big hurdle, even for wees. Sigh. But small mercies, eh.

Let us know how it goes, good luck

Thanks all.

Yep I'm geared up and ready for it I think. I'm really really hoping we can crack. To throw a small spanner into the works we are off abroad in 18 days! Not having to take huge packs of large pull ups would be nice. Athough will probably be replaced with washing powder for undies .

My DS is terrified of the hand driers in public toilets. If he's needed changing we go in disabled, if not we go in the ladies then run out really fast and have a squeeze of anti bac gel when we're safely away from the driers!

If you have any problems and feel like a different approach I just want to share what worked with my (NT) DD, who took ages to come to terms with pooing on the toilet. In the end we got her to poo on the toilet but still with a nappy on, after a while we loosened it til it was barely on then in the end didn't do it up at all so the poo just dropped straight in. It was a very gradual, step by step process.
I mention this because the"stern, no nonsense" may not always work with ASD kids as I know from my DS who took ages to toilet train, though once he'd cracked it he had no problem with pooing. What did it for him was finding the right reward, so maybe think about that too.

Bored, I spend more time in grubby disabled toilets in grim shopping centres/ leisure centres etc, than I would wish - my glamorous life!

Bored-I feel your pain. DS is nearly 5 and we have finally (I think but don't want to say it just yet) have cracked toilet training-the poo problem. DS was fine with weeing, but absolute refusal to do a poo. It has been going on FOREVER, and I felt like I was going to crack up if we didnt make any progress. He refused to try, said it was too hard, would get very distressed (he is ASD), but in the end I had to be very mean and force the issue. He used to poo 3/4 times in pull ups at school and one day when I picked him up he hadn't pooed. When we got home I encouraged him to have a wee and his bum was dirty, so it was obvious he needed to go! I had to be so forceful with him and tell him he had to sit and do a poo (we have been trying to get him to poo for 5 months by this stage). I would not take no for an answer, no amount of crying, etc bothered me. We told him he could have anything he wanted as a treat. he chose a wii game, I found a picture of this game and stuck it on the bathroom wall and told him if he did a poo we would go immediately to the shops and he could have the treat (desperate times!). he did the tiniest amount of poo and we did big praise and yes he got the treat, and he said to me 'that was easy', and once he had realised he could do it and it was not an impossible task he was more willing to try and since then we have had loads more progress and no accidents for 2 weeks.
I know how much of a fecking nightmare it is though, and if we had waited for DS to take the lead he would probably have been a teenager-we were lucky that we were able to catch him at the right time and then we had to be so firm with him and sit it out. It did take 45 mins for a poo for the first few days but since then he has made huge progress. Good luck!

I think it's all down to personality isn't it. We've tried the gradual approach and he won't have it. Won't even poo in his pull ups IN the bathroom. We were suggested the approach of loosening the pull ups bit by bit but the behavioural outreach worker who knows him said it was a bit of a long shot because of his personality.

He's had a BIG treat before offered, did a tiny poo to get the treat, then never again. That was about 3 years ago. Reward charts don't interest him. At the moment he likes pooing in his pull ups and if they are there as an option that's the option he's going to pick.

I do have to be very sergeant major in other areas too so I suspect it may work but time will tell. I'm just hate that everything is such a struggle!

DS is 8 in October.

Good luck!!

if he likes the snug fit, my ds got some boxers from primark with mooshi monsters and spiderman on, they are very very snug! but he knows if he does 'a skid' in them then i will bin them and he wont have them any more.
good luck, it sounds like it is going to be a battle of wills and lets face it, they have way more energy to carry on longer than us sleep deprived mothers!

I did the Azrin Fox method with dd. Try it and see. She was 5 and it took 3 weeks of consistently following it. Would not consider doing it for more than a month. If it doesn't work Leave it and try at Christmas or something.

bored after a long drawn-out step by step approach, we too adopted the no-nonsense approach you're talking about - matter of fact "right today there is no nappy any more" and gave him no choice. He got a reward of course (box of smarties) but tbh I don't think it was that that got him to do it.

Obviously it does depend on each child, what works for them etc, but it sounds like your ds is like mine in that way - give him an inch and he'll take a mile, and can negotiate for England So sometimes the best thing is to sort of give them no choice!

Wish you lots of luck (and for the evenings to help get over the slog)

Was going to start a thread on the same topic, OP. Practically everything you have said has struck a chord.

Movicol is making DS's stools very soft and squidgy but he is still withholding as long as possible, followed by soiling himself when he's unable to hold on any longer. I'm fairly sure that he doesn't actually know what is meant by "push it out", since all he has ever done is hold it in. We've tried reasoning, pleading, bribery - it all just washes over DS's head. He doesn't even seem to notice when I start getting angry. I don't want to get angry with him, I can see it'll be counter-productive - but it's so incredibly frustrating trying to get them to do something so fundamentally simple and, dammit, natural!

I don't know what to do. At the moment our strategy is the same as yours OP - sit them on the toilet and wait - but DS can hold it for days, so I'm not confident this is going to work within weeks. One time I made him stay on the toilet for two hours - with the poo clearly and visibly there, not just taking a chance on timing - and he still held it. I cracked because it started to feel abusive, and I couldn't stand it any more.

I'm really struggling. I don't know how to deal with this. I really feel for you bored, this is sheer hell and you've been going through it much longer than we have...

Aaw Stabby!

Yes that all sounds very familiar. ((sly hug))

We are 14 hours in. He has done lots of sitting on the toilet, but still no poo just yet. I have felt in the past like he's just waiting for me to crack, and he's much better at it than me! He has spent as long as he can remember responding to the need to poo by holding it in - like you say the natural urge to push just isn't wired in.

I've not been timing his sitting on it but I think I'm going to take a timer up next time and do 10 minute sits.

This thread is going to come in useful for venting and virtual hand holding I think. Thank you to all who have replied, it's nice to know I'm not alone. Even in my local autism group I've not many any families in this specific situation.

Bored, I haven't met any other parents with this issue in my autism group and I do feel very alone, so will be happy to have some virtual hand-holding. Did you quadruple the Movicol dose? (Gulp...) How are you getting on now?

Local autistic society have suggested building in a routine, which DS naturally doesn't have for pooing. I think as it is now our school holidays too, I will have to spend some time each day forcing the dear little soul into the bathroom for a little sit-down. Will probably take in some books or something, try to relieve the boredom a little. If I do this (not every hour like group leader suggested, felt faint when he said that) every three hours for maybe ten minutes and see how that goes. I'm sure it will be a very long hard slog, but I'm positive it will be resolved some day

Do come back and let us know how you're getting on - progress or otherwise

Well yesterday went a little better than I expected. He did 3 tiny poos in the toilet and did 2 tiny accidents in his underpants. For his accidents I made him do the bulk of the washing/rinsing the pants out, and he lost his screen time. Some of his big treats for if he poos in the loo are for screen time tokens, so he can earn it back but losing it is a loss he wants to avoid.

I did quadruple his dose of movicol yes. Had to get GP to do a same day repeat prescription, and get chemist to do a same day pick up and delivery! He is definitely holding on to a lot of poo on that dose as he didn't do anywhere near as much poo yesterday as he usually does. So I'm hoping today we might get a BIG poo in the loo.

Whilst sat on the loo he has looked at books, blown bubbles (good for relaxing those muscles), played with a spinny stimmy toy he likes, and complained. I've been setting the timer for between 10 and 20 minutes.

We are on day trip tomorrow with our autism group. At least I will be in understanding company!

That IS better than expected! We have had lots of "mummy I need a poo!" (whilst away from toilet) and "I don't need to poo" (whilst parked on toilet). After ten minutes I give up, put pants back on, allow him to go back to whatever he was doing, and then: "Aaaaaaah! Mummy I need a poo!" It is very wearing. But we have had a couple of poos in toilet, that started off emerging into pants, and we have made much of the plip noise that little poos make nosediving into the toilet. Also tried to create character in the poos - they are lonely in the water by themselves. They would like a poo friend. (He was not convinced.)

Hmm. I may have to give another sachet of Movicol. I remember the fall-out from the last doubled dose though, and am quite scared. Still, that's what washing machines are for, right? Have bought large packs of pants from the supermarket today - rather plain ugly ones, as I have started to feel sorry for George Pig, frequently getting crap on his smiling face

Good luck for tomorrow Bored, hope you can enjoy the day trip!