Me, confused again, but at least it's not about statementing this time! (Long and rambly)

[moosemama]

So school reports today and as usual I am and knotting my poor old brain up, so thought I'd get it all down here and see if either I or one/some of you lovely folks can help me make sense of it.

Ds1 is doing well academically in most areas, but has not progressed at all in literacy/writing since last year. So, he has only made one subgroup since his y2 SATs (he is now in year 5, going into year 6). He left infants top of his year and basically hasn't progressed since.

So here's the situation. Ds scored on either 95th or 98th centile (sorry, not got the right folder here to check) for verbal comprehension and verbal skills when they did the WISC IV last year. For reading he is way ahead and realistically speaking will probably be heading for a 5a (that's if the school don't decide to start doing the level 6 SATs I've been reading about on MN this week or it could be higher). His teacher has been keen to tell me all year about his amazing written work, how the content is exceptionally high quality and his use of language and vocabulary skills is incredible. I have read quite a few pieces and she's right, they are really good (not meant as a stealth brag, just an observation).

The problem with his level for literacy is purely relating to his handwriting skills, punctuation, spacing and lack of paragraphing. Every teacher he has had since year 3 has raised these points and not one of them has managed to make an ounce of difference, yet they are not on his IEP and the school clearly have no strategies or targets for them. Whenever I have raised his written work with his teacher this year she has just gushed about how amazing the content is and said something like 'he still needs to develop a greater awareness of the reader though' (yeah - good luck with that one ). The school refuse to discuss 'levels' until the end of year, so I had no idea he was still making zero progress in this area, having been given the impression he was finally, making good progress.

At the start of this year we were repeatedly told that if he could work on a laptop most of these issues would disappear and he could at the very least be taught to revisit and edit his work, retrospectively adding in the necessary punctuation etc. His teacher actually told me that she was incredibly frustrated and felt that if she could just hand him her laptop he would be unshackled and produce some truly incredible work.

The school put a laptop down as a need in their SA report, then when the statement came through and I adjusted the rather woolly wording to make sure he actually got one, they backpedalled madly and told us (in May) that he no longer needed one as he was making great progress and since SA (which was only completed at the end of Feb) he had improved so much he would only need 'access to' a laptop very occasionally.

The thing is, ds knows all the rules for punctuation, he passes every single worksheet they do on them. He can correct punctuation or write sentences including certain punctuation on every worksheet they give him, but he seems completely unable to apply it to his classwork. Same with paragraphing.

He also has problems with his handwriting, that are clearly identified in the OT report, along with recommendations that he should not be made to do joined-up writing and should use a laptop for anything longer than a paragraph. So again, that backs up the need for him to use a laptop.

Finally he has a problem with sizing and spacing of letters. Essentially to look at a page of his writing, it looks like a page full of oddly spaced letters, written in some sort of code. He puts random capitals in the text, spaces in the middle of words, but none between words - so you will have the first letter of a word attached to the last letter of the previous word, then a space, then three letters, then another letter, etc.

For example

T heQ uic K bro wn foxj uMp edo ver theL azy do g.

(Only imagine a whole page like that - I do actually feel sorry for his teachers having to decipher his written work for marking.)

When he types, he gets the spacing and letter size/case right, includes some - although not all punctuation and obviously doesn't have the issues around physically handwriting and of course he can edit much more easily.

I am not pushy, I don't want to push for him to get an incredible level or anything, but if this trend continues, he is going to leave primary at below the expected level for writing following his SATs, having left infants well above the expected level. I'm frustrated for him that the content of his work and therefore his true level of skill and knowledge etc is essentially being ignored, effectively due to his disabilities.

I can't understand why the school don't see that, if nothing else, it looks bad for them that a child's achievement could slide so badly from infants through primary.

Can they differentiate for content where a disability prevents a child from presenting work in a 'typical' manner or will he only ever get a lower grade than he is intellectually capable of getting, as a result of not being able to generalise his 'grammatical learning' to the rest of the curriculm?

What about this new 'grammar test for 11 year olds' that is being brought in next year? Looking at some of the questions the confusing thing is that ds will almost definitely pass the test, then go on to not use any of that knowledge in his written SATs. Will that help him to get recognition or just muddy the waters even further?

Oh - and while I'm here, as he is doing so well with reading, they obviously feel the need to trip him up. His target for next year is to appreciate the many levels of complex texts and the differing meanings within them (ie they want him to suddenly be able to 'get' implied meanings and inference). Lost count of the number of times I have explained that one to them, yet they still expect him to suddenly develop Theory of Mind so that he can better understand emotive writing etc. Ffs!

Huge and to anyone who made it this far. Another mahoosive Moosey braindump I know and I will understand if no-one has the energy or wherewithall to even reach the end, let alone offer any suggestions.

So, are school saying they won't provide access to a laptop? What is their problem, do you think? Is it cost, in which case offer to buy one yourself, or is it some other reason? Do you think they reckon it's going to stop him progressing with his handwriting? It might, of course, but that's probably a risk worth taking. Or is it just too much trouble? But if he gets a TA for literacy that will just be part of their job, printing off any written work and sticking it in his book. My DS2's TA used to do that for DS with his Alphasmart.

I imagine your DS has grown out of using an Alphasmart. DS2 won't use his anymore. He still struggles to complete his work when any reasonable amount of writing is required, but he now only uses a laptop occasionally in English lessons.

Is it in the proposed statement? I know you are still in the middle of fighting this. I would go with your instincts and keep it in. If not for now, then for secondary. If it is a normal part of his reasonable adjustments then he can use it in external exams. Well worth keeping!

Hi Ellen, thanks for trawling my essay.

They are saying that he no longer needs access for a laptop for most lessons. Whereas a couple of months back they were the people telling me he needed a laptop for all pieces of longer writing but that for short bursts in science (labelling diagrams etc) and numeracy he should carry on writing.

It could be cost, certainly their attitude to us/ds has significantly changed since we got the statement. (None of his support has cost them a penny to date.) They won't actually admit it though and are insisting he doesn't need one as he is now willing and able to write. I've seen his exercise books recently (he brought them home by accident) and there's no evidence to back up what they are saying in any of them.

They did express some concern about him stopping making progress with his handwriting, but the consensus was that his writing is about as good as it's going to get. He still attends a small handwriting group once a week and writes shorter pieces of work in all his lessons, so it's not as if he's not writing at all. The OT said that his printed letters are all correctly formed and if given enough time are neat and uniform, she said he shouldn't be pushed to do cursive or joined as with the hypotonia he doesn't have the necessary strength and/or stability to produce the flowing movements needed. She recommended a laptop for longer pieces as he is actually in pain when trying to write for any length of time and she felt it presented a barrier to him producing written work.

He liked his Alphasmart at first, but then it kept breaking down and he found it too restrictive and long-winded downloading to Word etc. This year's teacher loathed it from the off and said she felt it was holding him back, which is one of the reasons she gave for him needing the laptop.

It's in the statement, but was woolly. Can't remember exactly but something about 'will need access to'. It's in their SA report, the OT report from his ASD assessment and the EP has it in her SA report as well, so I changed the wording to 'the school will provide ds with a laptop'. I knew I was pushing it and it didn't get through, but it was one of the points I had a little wiggle room on the wording, so could negotiate. I would be happy with something like 'ds will be provided with access to a laptop for literacy and longer pieces of written work across the curriculum' - or summat. I have a better one noted down in my file, ready for action.

Ironically, the only lesson they are not allowed laptops for in the secondary we would like him to go to is English! I did ask though and it isn't a problem for pupils with SENs.

Of course an additional complication is that he has a low processing speed, so on top of being slower at writing than everyone else he takes a lot longer to get started and then think about what he's writing as he goes along. Add to that the usual Executive Function issues that come with ASD and he doesn't stand a chance. I have explained all this to the school, but they just don't seem to 'get it' and are constantly bemused as to why such a bright boy only produces a paragraph when others write pages and in some cases he only manages to write the date and title!

Forgot, getting TA support in literacy is another sticking point. He doesn't need a TA in every Literacy lesson - or at least he hasn't in primary. He needs one on kind of an adhoc basis, which actually fits better with the secondary model of having subject TAs.

He isn't getting any 1:1 classroom support at all, just some 'mentoring' contact to do with organisation, emotional literacy, anxiety management and social problems solving, but his statement does highlight the need for ad hoc support in literacy, social history and any other areas of the curriculum where Theory of Mind might come into play such as social understanding, character referencing etc. It also states he will need in class support with technical equipment, including the basics such as ruler, compass, scissors etc.

Of course his current school are panicking as to how they are supposed to resource this sort of adhoc support and their current defence is to argue he doesn't need it at all.

I agree with Ellen. I know it's not right, but if you could just get hold of a cheap old laptop yourself for him, would school's reservations massively evaporate? Hopefully without the physical pressures of writing, your DS could focus more on grammar/punctuation.

Btw some of what you describe re:written work rings massive bells with my experiences with my DS (except for I think any physical issues), I'ld put it down to a touch of perfectionism but possibly/probably there's rather more to it than that.... Not that I have any profound thoughts or solutions to share, or anything useful like that .

In terms of inference etc - do they/you have any SALT input? Just that SALT can provide materials etc for working through inferencing as I recall.

He has no SALT TLP, he has never even been assessed by them as he scored so highly on the Verbal Comprehension Index of the WISC IV. Of course the WISC isn't designed to pick up ASD-type problems, so the fact he scored so highly on that particular test doesn't mean he wouldn't benefit from SALT input.

I haven't gone into battle on that particular issue as yet though, as I know how little provision there is even for children with profound problems and it would be an uphill struggle to get them to see that ds could do with a bit of help there as well.

Of course he still struggles to get going and process what he's going to write etc even with a laptop, but what he produces at the end of it is a million miles from what he produces by hand - and there's so much more of it! They know this, as he has produced some amazing stuff using a variety of computer packages both at school and for homework.

It says on the bottom of his report that you can arrange a meeting to discuss the report with the CT. I've never bothered before and to be honest it's the last thing I feel like, but I think I might have to, if nothing else then, to ask if their opinion would change if we provide the laptop.

I am so that we only had his LS review less than a fortnight ago and they gave us the impression that he was doing well with his literacy and didn't suggest any literacy/grammar related targets.

moose I think that you are writing about my DS here. He used an alpha smart some of the time and sometimes was allowed a computer, they were teaching him to touch type - all Good. But I wanted his handwriting to be legible and punctuation and capitals to get sorted even if we then go down the computer route in Secondary. They thought I was quite mad, but did handwriting lessons with the other "bad" writers with him. It was on his IEP as one of the targets to use capitals appropriately - then later to write on the lines and leave spaces between words etc.
What seemed to have turned a corner for us was discovering DS is hypermobile and has physical difficulties with writing. He saw the Ot and got hand and finger exercises, but surprisingly when we had physio for a shoulder that he could spontaneously dislocate and we had to do exercises with weights for months for his shoulders his arm and wrist muscles got stronger too as a result and his handwriting improved 100 fold. Its not perfect but SO improved I was shocked.

I was wondering if your DS has similar physical problems that can be addressed?
By the way DS just had his SAT results and it doesn't seem to have held him back in any way!

That's interesting alison.

Ds2 has just been diagnosed with hypermobility (well the paed decided to put 'lax ligaments' instead of JHS, but that's another battle story) and has his physio assessment next week. Ds1 can do some very interesting things with many of his joints, but doesn't have any pain or physical problems like ds2. I have similar problems to ds2 and both my shoulders spontaneously dislocate when I lie on my side.

Ds1 was assessed by OT as part of his multi-disciplinary ASD assessment last year and scored bang-on the cut off point for support. One point lower and he'd have got regular input and support. They did include all their findings re hypotonia in their report (but of course they weren't assessing for hypermobility) and recommended he use a laptop, plus various other typical recommendations (wobble cushion, caring cutlery etc) as well as him doing the BEAM programme. Then that was that, no support, no exercises, nothing. The letter that came with the report said they were understaffed and underfunded and could not offer any support at all.

We did start him on a private course of pilates (which my lovely Mum kindly funded and the OT bod agreed would be a good idea) aiming to build his core strength, but he really struggled. Just trying to get him into starting positions was, like trying to rearrange jelly. He couldn't hold the position for long enough to work the muscles. We had to stop the course in the end, as progress was so slow there was no way we could fund enough lessons for him to make enough progress, iyswim. I have tried to get him interested in doing it via dvd at home, but he is very anti.

With regards to the actual handwriting and punctuation etc. He has had all the targets you mention, although on his in-class target card, rather than his IEP. Which is useless as it never gets filled in. He doesn't even fill in his section at the beginning of term and it never gets tracked or progressed - at least not in his target booklet. All the pupils in the school use these target booklets and ds2's targets are regularly checked, monitored and recorded in his, it just seems to be ds1 that doesn't get his done. I keep meaning to bring it up with his teacher, but I know there'll be an excuse of some sort and there's always something more pressing.

He did have letter size and spacing on his IEP last year and they assured me that he'd met the targets - but no, he hadn't and I found out too late to stop it being entered on his IEP as achieved.

I have spent years teaching him letter formation, size and position etc and working on spacing and punctuation. He knows it all, in theory, he can answer specific questions or do worksheets on it all - but for some reason he simply can't generalise it to his work without constant prompting. It's been years now of me sitting with him working on it during homework and in the holidays and he still doesn't/can't do it. Can't help thinking we are flogging a dead horse a little now and we should just call it quits and get him to use a laptop instead. I am sort of thinking if he could have a wordprocessing package that prompts, rather than corrects, for grammar and punctuation then that would be the equivalent of me sitting there working with him and hopefully, long term, he might start doing at least some of it automatically?

Notebooks are simpler and cheaper than a new laptop, (but maybe not cheaper than a secondhand laptop.)

Not being able to transfer skills from one situation to another is very ASD, of course. It's like many NT DC with spellings, being able to pass spelling tests of learnt words but failing to spell those same words in a piece of writing.

My DS has no problems with muscle tone. He's actually got a pretty mean six pack for a child who is allergic to the outdoors or any sport. But writing and other fine motor skills have always been a problem. He's never been bad enough to get OT involvement, unfortunately, though he's seen 2 OTs unofficially, (both friends of mine) who recommended various exercises and use of a laptop/Alphasmart. That's when I bought his (secondhand) Alphasmart, as the school sounded very reluctant and I didn't feel it was worth the battle or long wait when we could afford one (at the time.)

He can't touch type but he can certainly type much quicker than he can write, and what's more important is that he's much more motivated to type.

Hi Moose,your ds is quite similar to mine as regards the handwriting issue-school are teaching him touch typing at the moment etc but he is carrying on with handwriting for everything else for now. His handwriting has definitely improved a lot in the past year but we are fully expecting him to use a laptop most of the time in secondary school.
I was catching up earlier as we have been away and was reading the friday night thread and read your post re.visiting the secondary schools and was amazed to see that you have experienced the very same as us.We too have been visiting schools in the area and one school in particular is the one which most children with ' ishoos' seem to go to.It is totally geared up for special needs of all sorts, well used to kids with ASD and AS, is the one we have been advised to seriously consider as the best choice etc BUT we just didnt get a good feel for it.We didnt warm to the place,felt they were almost too used to ASD/AS/special needs etc,didnt take much interest in what ds was actually like etc-it sounds mad and wrong but I just cant really explain it.
However, the one which a good few of ds's friends are going to and which would simply have a regular ratio of special needs kids to other kids really impressed us.It just felt better,warmer,friendlier and we had a gut feeling ds would be happier there. Isnt it weird? I feel torn between head and heart and worry about whether or not we will be denying him more support etc by sending him to the one we liked best and not the 'expert' one iyswim.
Its hard isnt it to know whats best!

Ellen, ds does that with spellings as well. 100% in practically every weekly test since he started school, but the same words spelled wrong in his classwork. I read an article recently all about how children with ASD can't generalist and how it's a pretty fundamental part of the condition. Might see if I can find it again and print it off for the school!

Ds can type pretty fast. I spent ages teaching him with BBC Dance Mat typing, but then his teachers let him use two finger typing in class, so he quickly lost it again. Have found an app to download for the summer holidays which does personalised touch typing training and has touch typing games for children to encourage them. The deal is, if he passes the typing course, we will buy him the new Lego Starwars kit he's currently coveting.

Penneyanne, strange isn't it, but I am big believer in following your gut instinct with these things. Also, as ds really wants to go to the same one as his friends, I am inclined to try and make that work for him in the first instance, if at all possible. So I was really relieved that they seem to have a good set up and the whole school ethos seems better suited to ds's skills and interests.

Much the same as you, the so-called 'ASD friendly school' seemed less likely to see ds as an individual than the mainstream comp. I know they are more experienced, but I felt they weren't as interested in ds himself as the other school were and it seemed as if they would assume that 'standard' ASD support strategies would work for all children with ASD. They would only need to speak to ds's outreach teacher to find out that just isn't the case with ds. She is constantly having to reinvent the wheel for him, poor woman.

You see, the trouble is, that everyone generalises! Except all those DC with ASD, of course.

If you look on You Tube you will see videos showing hand strengthening exercises using theraputty.
These were quite good for DS as he likes playing with the theraputty. We also do things like hide beads in it and he has to find them all and take them out.

In addition we were told by the OT to do exercises like thumb wrestling, scrunching up paper with one hand and other common exercises that you will see if you look for them.

Re the shoulders, DS used 1/2 kilo hand weights and gradually build up the weights to 1.5 kilos. they were simple exercises from lying flat on his back or side on the bed, and also with his back to a wall and doing lifts from having his hands down by his sides to over his head, keeping them straight - like a snow angel against the wall. (That one is HARD).
Oddly the turning point seemed to be the shoulder exercises rather than the hand ones. I think it improved his posture and stamina overall.
The Physio was NHS stuff - we got the GP to refer to consultant to diagnose the hypermobility as he was voluntarily putting his shoulder out of joint and he recommended physio to support the joints. Slow process but it did help if you can face another challenge

I would say Dd3's handwriting improved with her shoulder stability and core strength too. She hasnt done any hand exersises at all but the difference in the last year is amazing.

This might be a silly question but is his writing affected by eye tracking issues? I would guess not as he is so good at reading but then again Dd3 is a good reader and great at worksheets but couldnt copy at all.

Since having the coloured tints in her glasses[no prescription though]she has noticed a big difference.

Thanks alison, will go and have a search on youtube.

Shoulder instability and hypotonia - particularly pronounced in his core and upper body, is, irrc, what the OT report says.

Ds2 has his assessment with physio for his hypermobility early next week, so I will be grilling them as well.

Ineed, we know he has visual motor issues. The WISC IV results indicated it, the OT felt there was most likely a problem there somewhere and the opticians said that although his eyesight itself is good he has really poor binocular vision (we have done exercises for this and it has improved significantly) and possibly other ocular motor control issues. The optician recommended visiting a local university for a full eye assessment (pretty much the BABO works) and it's on 'the list'. I even got the uni to send me the application forms last year, but never actually managed to send them off, mainly because the tests are intensive and done over several days and ds was at the time in a seemingly endless round of appointments and assessments already, so we were having to prioritise.

It's definitely something we want to get done before he leaves primary though.

Been to see his teacher, briefly, this afternoon and have an appointment next week to go through the report. I think she was expecting it.

Had a quick chat and it seems that they are just unable to level him against NC levels because his abilities are far too spiky. His teacher said she really tried but just couldn't get her head around it. She did say that she is meeting with the Head and one of the other teachers (who is a qualified/in the know about marking SAT papers as well) specifically to discuss the problem. She basically said he is making progress, the content is amazing, but they don't have the evidence to prove/evidence his level.

They've had similar issues in maths, his nc level was good/ok, but his teachers feel he is actually working a good two levels above that. The problem there is that his processing speed means that he can't complete the work in the set timescales (think we have finally drummed that one home re extra time now though) in addition, he won't do jottings, struggles to lay out his work effectively and is over-reliant on mental skills - all of which makes it really hard to prove/evidence his level.

I said that from my perspective, target setting has it's place, but if you are setting targets for something a child is simply never going to be able to do, then you need to be looking at removing the barriers to learning/progress as well. It's no good telling me he might be able to punctuate some of his work by the time he's 21, because will fail his GCSE's in the meantime. Whereas if you remove the handwriting, punctuation thing as a barrier he stands a much better chance of achieving his potential. I explained that I feel the use of a laptop, would at least allow him to re-read, edit and amend would remove a lot of the barriers. I also said that if their problem with him using a laptop was basically a financial one, then we would be happy to provide him with one ourselves (she didn't answer that).

To me, it's madness for a child for whom vocabulary and language skills have been shown (assessed) to be a clear and definite strength, to be failing literacy because he can't generalise punctuation - especially when you consider that inability to generalise is a pretty fundamental autistic impairment. If he had a more visible disability that prevented him from meeting part of the assessment criteria, surely they would have to differentiate for it during exams and assessment tests?

Moose all this is very interesting as my DS has some similar issues and I am really concerned that he is going to fail GCSE English is spite of being clearly very bright. I'm too tired tonight to write an essay (which it will be!) but am marking my place and will post tomorrow.