Do the staff at your child's school maximise opportunities for communication for him/her?

[sphil]

By which I mean, do they attempt to engage your child, interact and communicate with them in assemblies, play times, outings and other occasions outside the direct instruction of the classroom? DS2 (ASD with SLD) is only basically verbal - requests only, using single words, - but is VERY keen to interact and communicate, using eye contact, facial expressions and a few gestures. Time and time again I see staff fail to respond to these overtures, or only do so minimally. Is this common, in your experience?

ours do, but they have only 16 in each class so i guess it's easier.
have you brought this up with them?

I would think it's fairly standard (sadly) that most staff don't realise or understand the importance of reinforcing and encouraging communication with dc with ASD. Probably the exception to the rule when staff do respond unless they have had explicit instruction, briefing or training. The general public, inlcuding school staff, ime have no concept of how important this is (they're probably so sick of nt kids constantly talking to them they probably switch off!).

How informed are the staff at your school about ds and his difficulties?

My ds's IEP is made up purely of social (ie non-academic) targets. We had a long, drawn-out battle to get the right kind of statement and ensure appropriate training for staff. I expect I am rapidly getting a reputation as a major pita at school for asking for meetings, sending emails etc making sure as far as possible that all relevant staff are aware of how important every contact is to ds and that every social opportunity should be a learning one for him. Eg giving them regular briefings about how to respond to him, what topics to avoid (he is obsessive) etc.

Can you call a meeting to discuss staff training?

Thanks for this - he is in a class of 10 - unit in a m\s school - with 5 staff members.Up to next term he has been in m/s with 1:1 who has been very good, on the whole, at communicating with him, though I'm not sure that even she realises quite how important taking every opportunity is. From Sept he is in the special needs class f/t. Staff are experienced and I'm sure their interaction in class is good, when, as you say, the targets are explicit, but outside the classroom (in assemblies etc,) I have observed an almost complete lack of direct engagement. It's very awkward, as I work there and so am not supposed to 'see', let alone comment on these things. We have called a meeting to focus on behaviour (another huge issue) but we could bring in the communication issue then. Like you, Bialy, I am very aware that I am seen as a pita for what is seen as 'interference' in Ds's education.

Ds (asd / LD) attends a specail school - he is in a class of 7 with 5 staff. They are very focused on communication - from the momment we arrive in the morning to saying goodbye at night. The school caters for severe LD and profound and multiple LD so communication is a massive focus throughout the school.

I'm a governor at the school and spend a lot of time there for special events and everyday meetings so I see for myself how focused they are and how they taylor communication methods to suit each child.

Linking behaviour with communication sounds like a good way to bring it up? If they are more focused on communication during assemblies then there could be a marked improvement in behaiviour.............

i would definitely bring it up.

don't worry about being a PITA! you are the only one looking out for your DS and sometimes you have to be a pain to ensure he is getting the level of care that he needs.
if they can do it in class there is no reason why they can't do it out of class- unless they have a specific reason why they don't

There is an awkwardness around it being a class within a m/s school - they are expected, for example, to attend whole-schools assemblies and events which are geared to the m/s children. Some efforts are made to include them, but the events aren't designed with SEN in mind, as they would be in a special school. Cwtches - I am in the same position, as I'm a governor at a special school and so see how things are done there. The focus on communication is exactly as you describe. It's secondary only though, so DS can't go there until he's 11.

I am prepared to be a pita - I just wish I didn't have to be.

maybe you need a chat with the class teacher and the head of the school?

DP told me this great way of "sandwiching" complaints so it seems quite positive.

so you start with something positive (we're really happy with progress x is making in class or whatever) then the negative thing (i'm concerned about how well the group integrates in whole school activities) and then another positive (he is really enjoying school right now etc etc)

ask what is put in place to make sure those in the unit feel included in whole-school activities and mention your concerns re the communication issues and then ask what they/you can do to help ALL the children have a happier time in those situations?

I work as an TA in a special secondary school (7 students [6 totally non verbal working around level P3i] and 6 staff (including the teacher) and I get incredibly frustrated when my colleagues miss really obvious signs of communication (very basic, obvious examples: handing a book to a member of staff to flick the pages for you or handing empty drink bottle to member of staff when more is wanted). I've been at the school for a year now and I think the ones who do miss these signs don't do it deliberately, I think they just don't realise what it means... I don't know how you can train someone to be more aware of these signs.

I agree BlueEmerald - Ds2's signs are far more obvious. He is very tactile, he looks at people when he wants attention and he also speaks. But because a lot of what he says is unintelligable ( lots of jargon and echolalia) and the many clear words he has for request aren't things that are available in school, his verbal vertures are often ignored, whereas at home we try to respond to everything he says, whether we understand or not.
Thisis - we always do this when we see the Head and it does work well, though I think she might be starting to see through it now!

His ABA staff yes every time. The school staff, no, totally useless.
There have been some real 'wow' arm punching moments this year when the ABA staff were beside themselves that DS finally did something they had painstakingly taught him. The teacher didn't even bloody notice. Now I tell them just yell out 'wow DS that was amazing you ......' Then she will have no choice but to join in

One thing the class teacher and I put together to try and get some of my collegues to see what she we meant was a communication checklist. It was a list of all the things we thought each child did to try and communicate (puts adult hand on door handle to leave room etc) and a tally of how many times each student did each thing. We work on a pretty much one to one basis in our class so it's easier to do these things.

Our teacher also went on this training, which is amazing and I wish I could have gone too!!

Thats a good idea Blue - might do one for DS2. The problem is, I have a horrid feeling they'd smile and nod, then shut the door and go back to doing exactly what they were doing before.

Your link is brilliant - just the sort of thing we need for DS - but are you in the States?

No, in London :)
You could ask for the sheet to be sent home every day/every Friday?

I honestly don't think they'd do it - but I'll try. It's just not in the culture. They will 'teach' language skills - greetings, colours, big/little, on/under etc - but naturally occuring communication just isn't high priority. Which is one of the reasons I think we may have to move him.

I think it's a tricky area. DD1's special school have communication at their heart. However, the children also need to learn appropriate communication, so they will deliberately ignore inappropriate communication. For example, if a parent is talking to a teacher about their child, and another child interrupts, they will ignore the child, or make a sign to show that they need to wait.

However, it doesn't sound like your school is even doing that

The trouble is Lougle, that what is seen as inappropriate is judged by NT standards. For example, DS2 was 'shushed' by the Head in assembly for making excited noises during a child's music solo. This is the way he communicates pleasure. Though I can quite see its not appropriate during a m/s assembly, it seems to me that his attempts to communicate are beimg blocked or ignored much of the time. The last straw was today when the SEn teacher described him as 'having no functional language'. He isn't very verbal, but he does use single words to request very frequently at home. What is happening at school that they don't realise this?

So there lies your problem, sphil. Your DS is making a valid communicative attempt, and it is being misinterpreted

I shouldn't have used the word 'ignore', actually, because thet isn't what they do at DD1's school...it is much more sophisticated than that.

I think you'd be wise to ask some challenging questions. For example, DO they know what your DS is saying? Could you do a communication passport for him?

Do they have a 'total communication' policy? DD1's school uses 'total communication' which means that they sign to all children, and each other, all the time. The idea is that all the children can communicate wherever they are, whoever they're with.

Yes, but I don't think they get much choice , I sometimes get some rather exhausted sounding comments in the book. Initially they didn't really know with the talker so we sort of fell out of synch a bit with that, but once they realised they didn't have to actually do anything unless they wanted to - it being there was enough for ds1 to take the lead it's been used a lot (and they try and build chatting sessions into the day as well as more formal work with it).

Does the unit have an 'approach' sphil? For example ds1's school uses a total communication approach so they are very geared up to communication in all its forms.

I think this can be a problem with mainstream schools tbh. Teaching 'good school behaviour' will be more important than 'encouraging communication'.

Whole school assemblies of quiet children sounds rather a 'good on paper' exercise. iykwim.

Oh yes, there's a total communication policy. All the singing in assemblies is signed, but I would say the use of signing elsewhere is patchy, except in Early Years. They use our county's total communication package, which is signs, symbols, words - but again its very patchy.

Jimjams - you've seen video of my DS. Would you describe him as having 'no functional language'? Please say if you would - I need to get my descriptors straight before I go charging in ( again) next term.

Lougle - part of the problem is that he is hard to understand at times - you have to really listen and 'tune in'. And they don't. ( Staff working 1:1 with him did, but he loses that when he goes into the unit in Sept)

And unfortunately his failure to communicate ( or rather THEIR failure) is now resulting in some aggressive behaviour, which I've witnessed myself but which is being totally played down by the school ( almost as if they expect it). Our letter asking for a behaviour plan has not been answered and I'm being made to feel like an over-anxious parent for going on about it.

we had this with dd1 when she was in ms, and when she was in her (hopeless, for her) ASD school.

dd1 has always been very chatty, but when she was younger she was very hard ot understand - this was written off as 'babble' by staff in ms, when it was clear as a bell to me (although, to be fair, I watched some home video the other week, and couldn't understand half of it )

her other trick was to say everything really, really, quietly, with minimal facial expression/movement, and so a lot of her communication wa smissed. I remember standing by the door, and knowing what she was saying from across the room (she was asking for a drink, at the time when we were working really hard on getting her drinking again after her mammoth strike), and nobody noticed. that made me wonder what else was being missed.

I think this kind of thing can become 'just' part of the culture sometimes - all parcelled in with expectations in a way. ie the staff know your ds is minimally verbal (NOT the same thing as 'having no functional language'), and so they don't really expect him to be asking for something, or commentating on anything, or communicating ina meaningful way, and so a lot of his efforts go overlooked.

dd1's current school is excellent at noticing it all, and her functional language has increased massively a a result (and it's not as though she wasn't a chatty little thing anyway) - no attempt at communication goes un-noticed, as far as I can tell (not much access to the classroom, but I do see her in theplayground, and she runs herself ragged at hometime saying goodbye to everyone - I have no idea of who some of the tutors are as they are from the secondary unit, but she trots off to speak to them all and they all certainly know her and her language foibles).

nothing is ignored or overlooked - it may be shaped, if inappropriate (ie interrupting a conversation - one of dd1's major targets at the moment is waiting to be answered, or judging when and how to enter a conversation), but every response is noted, and collated, and pondered over (if necessary), even if it is not immediately responded to (for whatever reason)

Oh God Silver - you are so right in everything you say. Ds speaks very quietly and often very quickly - even DH doesn't always get what he's saying like I do. For example this evening he was saying 'ever so fast' because he wanted me to chase him ( and its the line from a song, so not quite as clever as it sounds!) but it sounded like 'esofast' so was hard to pick up at first. And they don't have the time, or the expectation, or the communication culture at school to do the active, careful listening that's needed. I have a horrible feeling that the special schools round here may not do it either - they seem so focused on academics and 'taught' communication rather than natural environment stuff. We need an ABA school!

I am really starting to wonder whether I should home ed him for two years and really try to get his communication going before he goes to the special secondary school.