Threatening to exclude ds from school trip next week

[Shagmundfreud]

... because he won't do as he's told. This was after another field trip today when he got told off a lot for talking when the teacher was talking, not walking with the teacher etc. When I asked him about it after school he said he was 'too excited' and couldn't stop himself. His behaviour isn't dangerous, he doesn't run away and he's not violent.

Since the beginning of this term we've had more and more episodes of non-co-operation at school - he won't move to the back of the room when sent there for making silly noises on carpet; won't stop talking; walking out of the room when he's being told off; refusing to complete work/start work. His teacher has acknowledged he needs a lot of one to one support to properly access the curriculum - he's in year 2 and has got a 2a in reading and maths but only a 1c in writing because he simply won't do the work (although he can do it - his spelling and sentence construction aren't bad, he just doesn't want to write.

The only support he gets is from the class TA, who is worse than useless. He is expected to complete his work in the class even though the teacher has acknowledged that working in a group of other children is almost impossible for him.

His behaviour is NOT just down to naughtiness or bad parenting: I've had two older children go through this school who've been thoroughly law-abiding and I work as closely as I can with his teacher to support her in disciplining him at school.

He's on school action plus and has seen the EP who, while acknowledging that she'd not qualified to diagnose has suggested he as aspergers, which would fit with what we as a family think (though I also wonder if there is more we need to know). I did post about this a week ago after I got a call from a doctor at CAMHS apologising for him being on their waiting list for more than 6 months (I'd complained to my mp) and giving him a working diagnosis of aspergers over the phone on the basis of a five minute conversation with me and on the strength of what I'd told her the EP had said. This doctor hadn't met my son or read any of his notes.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but what are the legalities of excluding him from a school trip. He would be DEVASTATED not to go - the trip is to the seaside. Do they not have some sort of obligation to make provision for him in this sort of circumstance?

You need to push as hard as you can for a formal dx and then it will be illegal for them to exclude him on the grounds of anything related to his SN unless they have tried every and all means of supporting him within the school.
Other than nagging him, what other support does he get?
Have they considered his seating, screens, headphones, support materials to enable him to stay on track throughout a task, length of time between short breaks, fiddle toys, scribing his words for him to copy...there are hundreds of support possibilities for all the individyuals on the spectrum.
at a CAMHS doctor diagnosing over the phone though, that's crap.

Would they take him if you accompanied him ?

obviously I don't know your ds and his needs - so please please forgive me if I am out of order, but is there any way you can leverage the fact that he really wants to go to support him to "do better?"

eg. so often our kids "use" behaviours to avoid things they don't want to do because they are too stressful, scary etc. But in this case your ds does want to go - so this would be an ideal opportunity to set him some goals -eg. if he has x number of strikes within a half hour period and he goes home for instance - (you would have to accept that he won't be perfect - so the threshold would have to be fairly high before he got sent home - so breaking it into time windows might work)

I am afraid with my ds I am of the view that his difficult behaviours should have negative consequences for him (within reason) - otherwise there is no incentive for him to play his part in learning to cope (though clearly he can't do it all on his own - and I don't know your ds - this may not be rasonable for him - but it might be worth thinking about?)

Oh I agree, a dx is a key, an explanation for certain behaviours and needs.
It's not an excuse.

Use the fact he is being informally excluded from an educational trip as evidence of the school's failure to meet his needs in a formal statement application. This is to avoid the risk of this becoming a depressing pattern throughout the rest of his time at primary.

The statement app should help get the diagnosis/needs formalised and you send the app to the LA head of Children's services so the school won't be able to hide what they are doing. Include ASD staff training as part of your request.

Put in a formal letter of complaint to the HT & Governors re his illegal exclusion, offering to go on the trip with him to help ensure his compliance & asking when they are gonna give his teacher and TA for next year some formal ASD training.

I personally adore the Linda Miller book "the 5P approach" for HFA kids as a way of ensuring consistent behavioral management in mainstream. The charity "ambitous about autism" is also running some great courses for schools, inc' a couple specifically for AS/HFA end of the spectrum. Suggest they avail themselves pronto

Meant to say - ensure you offer to accompany him to ensure his compliance. If they still say no even once you've offered to help them out then it's clear evidence of an unwillingness to help him, rather than inability iykwim? The latter is understandable the first unforgiveable.

Totally agree with Bochead. Offer to go and see what the answer is.

DS was excluded from a trip the day before even though he had a 1 to 1 TA, dx & statement. I offered to go along too but they still refused he could go.

He doesnt go to that school anymore.

I dont agree with punishment by excluding from trips. The children are then missing out on social and life skills outside of school, or in my ds case missing a major chunk of that terms curriculum education as he could not complete the next stage after the trip so it serves no purpose.

Yes bad behaviour should have consequence but be realistic and give the consequence there and then.

If he cant go they are definately not able to meet his needs. You can apply for a statement without a dx.