Do you need to send everything with appeal docs or do they give you longer?

[moosemama]

I am tad confused - again.

Still being messed around by the LEA, no direct contact from them since we returned our amends. They asked the school to 'speak to/meet with us' to talk me out of the amends, but have made no attempt whatsoever to engage us themselves.

Have sent a letter indicating we've taken legal advice and asking them to either amend, or finalise so we can appeal - again, it's been three weeks now and no response.

Took further legal advice on Friday and have been told to send one more letter with a strict deadline for them to finalise - 'based on legal advice' and informing them that if they miss the deadline we will instruct legal bods to act on our behalf ... etc.

So anyway, I've been working on my evidence for appeal. Slow process when I'm this poorly, but getting there.

Do I need to send in everything when I send in the appeal forms OR can I just send in the forms and a copy of the finalised statement and appendices, then follow it up with the report I am compiling that clearly links evidence in the appendices to what we want specifiying and quantifying?

I am keen to get the appeal forms off asap, obviously, but not sure I will have everything else ready to send that quickly. Am I right in thinking you get 30 days from the date they receive the appeal forms - or have I dreamed that?

Finally, if we want back up to show that ds needs properly qualified 1:1 help with emotional literacy and anxiety, would it be ok to use a Clinical rather than an Ed Psych or would an EP hold more weight?

You're on th right track.

To start the appeal it needs to be 'registered'. This mean simply sending in your reasons for appeal and having confirmation from SENDIST that your reasons are reasonable iyswim.

So your reasons can't be 'because the LA EP is a stupid cow' but it can, and usually IS 'because the LA has failed to specify and quantify provision in part 3', with one or two examples. You can also add a couple of recommendations that have not been used if you have them. This is NOT the time to be 'making your case' because at his stage the LA has to respond to your appeal and if you've made your whole case already they are better positioned to create evidence against it in the run up to tribunal iyswim.

Thanks Star, that all makes sense to me. Which itself is pretty amazing considering how bad my head is today.

So, we fill in the form with our reasons for appealing. Then SENDIST confirms the appeal can go ahead and lets us know when we need to have the rest of our evidence in and we send this 'after' the LEA has been given a copy of our case and responded?

OK, I think I can manage that.

Yes. You are supposed to send in evidence as you have it though, after the appeal is registered.

The LA response is likely to be nuts and daft and Ill thought out. Possibly nothing more than 'appeal shoukd be dropped coz parents are greedy/ bad parents and coz we feel we have specified enough'

Then there is a date for 'late evidence' (about 4-5 months later) which is likely to be the first you actually hear of the LA's rationale, and so unless they are extremely forthcoming with information beforehand, the last evidence date is actually like a blind bid where both sides submit everything at once at the same time without having given anything away beforehand.

So you want to schedule an EP (and any other relevant experts) somewhere in this timeframe. Not too early so that any postponement will render report out of date, and not too late that they don't have time to meet final evidence deadline.

Oo er now that's sounding trickier.

Mind you it's all academic if the bloody LEA refuse to finalise or even answer or communicate with us in any way at all.

Called a well known legal SEN charity last week and they were befuddled that the LEA hadn't bothered to respond to our last letter, which included legal wording specified by them the last time I called for help. They said it does the trick with 99% of LEAs and it seems even more odd given how little we're actually asking for.

Brain is in overdrive now wondering what's really going on and what exactly the LEA is trying to pull here.

No no no. It isn't tricky. It's just new to you.

Basically don't panic. Submit your 'reasons' as mentioned before and the the tribunal will give you a hearing date and 'late evidence' date. Make sure you have everything in by that late evidence date, but even then, the tribunal will usually accept things later with a reason.

Thanks Star.

Your calm, sensible posts are always really appreciates, as they remind me to try and keep a sensible 'unpanicky' head on my shoulders.

I seem to remember that I sent the forms off registering the appeal, then we got a letter back with a tribunal date and other deadline dates. The first was about 1 month after the date on the reply to have sent all the amendments that we wanted to the statement to SENDIST and the LEA. This involved sending the long document that you are compiling now - ie the statement as you want it and appendicies.
There was another date to submit witness names a bit later. ( This gives you time to find any independent EP or whatever if you are using one).
There was then a date about 1 month before the tribunal date to submit late evidence. Our LEA had none but we submitted our OT report on the final day for evidence.

The LEA then got around to looking at the paperwork and told us ( having ignored all the correspondence for the previous 8 mths) that our appeal involved changing part 2 as well as 3, and that I had only appealed 3 and so they wouldn't discuss part 2. I then submitted a change to SENDIST to be allowed to consider part 2 as I had changed it anyway in the papers they had had months ago and they allowed it.
The LEA finally met us thrashed through the points with us and we got a final signed statement the day before the tribunal.

Thanks Alison, that's really helpful. Did you just send of the appeal forms initially then, with no evidence at all?

I assumed I needed to at least send a copy of the finalised statement with it - if we ever get one that is.

Yes you need the final statement plus covering letter. You should also keep the envelope with the postage date as you'd not be surprised how often there is a discrepancy.

Alison is right about the different stages, but provided you have a reason, pretty much everything can be done by the final evidence date. You may well find that by getting expert opinion you subsequently feel you have evidence for more costly provision so you'd request changes etc.

I suppose what I am trying to say is don't get all shaky about various deadlines. Make sure you pay attention mostly to the last day iyswim, and just do what you can wrt the others.

Hi moose, think you send copy of statement or note in lieu and the advices that were used.

State the reasons you are appealing and what parts. Pretty sure this is right. Mine was ready to go (note in lieu) before lea decided they would issue statement.

Sorry x posted with star

I haven't got all the documentation in front of me but we sent off the appeal on the grounds of " refusal to specify and quantify" with some examples such as wanting all the "school should provide" to "Ds will receive" and the wanting it quantified.
I can't remember if we enclosed the statement with it
but ..
We received a letter registering the appeal which said " If you have not already done so please ensure that the Tribunal receives a copy of your child's statement of educational needs and a copy of the refusal letter immediately"
so I guess you don't have to.

Then there was a letter attached with all the actions that needed to be taken and the dates for those as I described in my post above.

Looking on my computer at my correspondence I definitely later sent the amendments that I wanted in detail after receiving the registration of the appeal.

Thanks Star (and starfish)

Am feeling a bit 'beat' this afternoon, after discovering we were bare faced lied to at ds's IEP review on Friday about what they have been doing and what he is achieving. Then this morning when sorting ds's bag I found out that they haven't been giving him the extra time he is entitled to in examinations and tests. So the latest QCA tests that were done last month were done without his SEN needs being met.

Went to see one of his teachers this afternoon and she said they have never had it communicated to them that he should be getting extra time, although she agrees that he needs it for formal tests and examinations. The bloody SENCo has been telling us all year that he has been getting extra time - 'in class and for assessments' - yet another lie.

Teacher actually said that she is well aware of his ability, as he has demonstrated it over and over in class, given enough time, but she isn't allowed to give him the level he deserves as he hasn't met the criteria in testing and assessment. She was really cross, as she's genuinely fond of him and can't understand why the school seem determined to stop him meeting his full potential one way or another. She said it's probably down to poor internal communication, but I think we know different.

I am soooo tired, in relapse and today not feeling like I can carry on fighting - although I will, what other choice is there? It feels like wading through mud, whilst simultaneously punching a sponge - no progress on either front, no matter how hard I try and ds suffering the consequences.

Cross posted again. Thank you alison.

for your DS.
Its not right is it?
I expect people to actually do what they tell me they are going to. That shouldn't seem unreasonable should it?

Thank you again alison.

No, it's not right, in fact it's a million miles from right. The LEA stuff I can accept isn't personal, names on a page, number on a list, ££s in a budget and all that - but the school.

He's been there for seven years, yet so far hasn't cost them a penny in additional support (both the EP crisis team and outreach are free services to the school). They put on all sorts of extra work/support groups etc while SA was going on and they all stopped 'coincidentally' the week we were told he was getting a statement. Even his SEAL group was stopped for 6 weeks, because they wanted other children to attend and they couched it as a negotiated treat for him because he didn't want to miss guided reading. Then it didn't restart for over a term and only once I pointed out that he should be attending.

They have known him and worked with him for all those years, he is hard work I know, but adorable and his teachers, well all but one, have always loved him - so why on earth do they think it's ok to watch him flounder, suffer and not meet his potential for the sake of a few extra quid?

I can't accept that in their case it isn't personal, because it is. He is there with them day in day out, they know about his reflux, migraines, bad stomachs, nightmares, ocd and anxieties, they've witnessed him being beaten up and bullied by other pupils and the effect that has had on him emotionally and that's still not enough evidence for them to start supporting him properly. Well in my book that means they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children, if they are able to be that uncaring about a child they can see struggling that they are willing to barefaced lie to his parents about what they have/have not done (which just proves that they do know what they should be doing) then they simply shouldn't be in the job.

Moose, schools are just like LEAs. It's not the individual dc, it's the needs of the ofsted inspection, their sats and league table position, balancing the budget, avoiding staff absence and keeping the parents (of non-SEN children, natch) happy.

Harming a dc with SEN because of poor provision is just collateral damage, lies and subtle bullying of mothers is a regrettable but an inevitable part of the job.

I guess I know that really maria, it's just it's a relatively small school in a village and it used to have such a family/community feel until the new head took over and started running it like a business. Which of course was inevitable. There has been a lot of good come out of the change in head, but caring about individual pupils and their needs has been lost in the mix.

His teachers this year really care about him, but his main CT has suddenly changed towards us since we told them we are going to tribunal. Feels a bit like she's been coached on what she can and can't say, whereas before she's always been genuinely supportive and very open about how ds is doing.