Quick question about provision whilst appealing content

[moosemama]

If you ask the LEA to finalise so you can appeal, what happens about provision between the issue of the final statement and the appeal being heard?

Do the school just follow the statement as finalised, or is it all put on hold until after the appeal?

Also, another quick on if I may?

If they finalise now-ish, does that mean we can still go the SEN transition route for secondary admissions (ie name a school to go in part 4 by a designated date) or, if the statement is effectively in limbo until the appeal is heard, do we have to go via mainstream/non-SEN admissions procedures?

Can't get my head around whether the statement is going to be implemented as is whilst we are waiting for our appeal date to arrive.

Cheeky bump.

Bumping for you moose.

Thanks starfish.

I really don't have a clue on this and the school have just sprung a review meeting on me.

It is my understanding that legally LA have to provide the support that is in the finalised Statement, but I can't quote the legislation that states this. I'm sure that someone else will come along who knows more than I do.

Provision must be put in place as soon as a Statement is finalised. That provision should remain in place until SENDIST (just as would happen should a LA try to reduce support in an existing Statement).

It doesn't stop you naming your preferred secondary education but that would probably also be the subject of your appeal.

Thank you.

That's what I thought.

So that means ds will be losing his 1:1 outreach teacher then, even though it's something I was fighting for him to keep. He is a mess about transition already, if she has to tell him he won't be seeing her anymore that will just about finish him off.

Mind you, they haven't finalised yet, so are probably spinning it out as long as possible. If the statement is accepted I think schools have 6 weeks to get provision in place don't they? So that will at least be the start of next school year and he will lose one of his most important piece of support from then on.

So far, secondary place isn't something we are appealing, but only because we have yet to visit the two most likely candidates and without a finalised statement have been excluded from the round of additional review meetings to name a school by the end of July.

The school could continue to fund his current 1:1 support from their own delegated SEN budget. I'd press for that as there's so little time 'til end of term. Argue continuity prior to transition. Also they'd probably have to give her some notice of termination of employment - probably at the end of the school term.

Really useful thread. Looks like I may be joining you with tribunal, Moose. The proposed one is wooly and has no hours quantified on it! I haven't found a suitable school yet either! We've got a meeting with lea on Monday.

It's not 1:1 as in TA support Wet, it's a once a week 1:1 session on emotional literacy and anxiety management, provided by the outreach team - that the school don't have to pay for.

We were told that as soon as he has a statement they will remove this provision as it's against outreach's policy for them to work 1:1 with statemented children. He would then only be entitled to back-up support/advice via school staff from outreach, rather than face to face support. Ridiculous, they identify a clear need, it's in the bloody EP report that he should continue to have a weekly session on Emotional Literacy delivered by someone experienced and knowledgeable in ASD, but what to do they do? Remove the very thing that's been identified as a need!

There's no-one at the school who could be described as experienced and knowledgeable in ASD. All staff had a one day 'awareness' session a year ago. which has not repeated, so now there are plenty of new staff who don't even have that level of knowledge. SENCO is refusing to agree that he needs support from anyone with more knowledge than that (bearing in mind this was of a level that the dinner ladies and handyman attended). EP and I disagree - hence part of the reason for the appeal. Honestly I despair at their lack of common sense.

His outreach teacher assured me the week before all this transpired that she had already told her bosses she was going to continue seeing ds next year, as it would be detrimental to his mental health if she didn't, what with secondary transition. She is actually taking on a slightly different role/caseload as of September, but had already had the discussion/meeting where she said she would keep ds on. SENCO approached outreach teacher's boss, who said she absolutely wouldn't be keeping him on her caseload and she shouldn't have said she would, because she didn't have the authority to say that she would.

EP would go as far as to agree with me that he needs specialist 1:1 sessions on emotional literacy and anxiety management and that if not suitably qualified, whoever does that role will need to be sent for additional and appropriate training (she suggested I look into what training is currently available). I couldn't pin her down to say it should be the current outreach teacher due to the problems around transition this year and particularly across secondary transition. This is despite her report reiterating several times the importance for ds of building and maintaining a trusting and consistent relationship, which obviously there isn't much time to do before secondary transition process starts, as for the SEN kids they start the whole orientation process really early. She said she isn't able to make that call.

He has been working with his current outreach teacher for 18 months and I'm not suggesting he will need to maintain that relationship throughout his schooling, just through this transition period and then be slowly handed over to his new school as he settles.

I swear, if they tell him he can't see his outreach teacher anymore it will tip him over the edge. He's only just hanging on by his fingernails at the moment as it is and his teacher has been telling me how concerned she is about him, because although I've told her what he is like at home and what he get's like when under stress/pressure, she's never seen him like this herself before.

Sorry for the ranty post. I am just so that they can't see the damage they will do, for no reason other than there's no precedent set for them to work 1:1 with statemented children. I suspect the reason for that is because most statemented children who have ASD have a 1:1 LSA for x number of hours a week, who can liaise and work closely with their allocated outreach teacher. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen for ds, because the support he needs is too patchy for them to employ a 1:1 for him.

It's all a bloody big mess. I'm wading through the statement and evidence etc trying to make sure I have evidence to send off with my appeal form as soon as they finalise, but God knows when that'll be, because the LEA are currently completely silent.

We have a letter ready to send off, if we have not heard anything by a fortnight after the statement should have been finalised, (nxt Tues) pointing out that they are denying us our legal right to appeal by not finalising. If that doesn't get them to finalise, I guess we will have to take further legal advice.

Good luck with your meeting Sazale.

I really hope you can get them to specify and quantify without having to go to tribunal.

Moose

Truly appalling.

It never ceases to amze me just how thick these so-called educationalists really are. Policy-driven twats would be a kind description.

Just make sure that you get what you think he needs firmly ensconced in the Statement.

As this is county policy outside your individual school's influence I really would be tempted to complain to my Local Councillor about over-prescriptive policies that damage child by withdrawing established support.

Trouble is that we spend our lives complaining.

I'm fighting a similiar dopey 'policy' issue at the momment. DS's CMH social worker said he would benefit from CBT and wrote to GP asking GP to make referral to CBT service. We than wait 8 months before CBT service rings us. They ask 'Is he being seen by First-town CMHT? Because if he is CBT service will refuse the referral - evn though First-town CMHT recomended that the CBT service see him in the first place!.

So I'm going to have to complain to PALS, MP etc etc. Not that CBT service will be any good for DS anyway as it's clear they know bugger-all about Aspergers. So I've told the CMHT team to cutthe crap and make a tertiary referral to somewhere that can help him. I could scream.

Thanks moose, apparantly they don't specify and quantify as we have the wonderful devolved budget here so statements bring no extra money. Parent partnership tell me they don't have a policy stating this coz that would be a blanket policy that they can't have. Parent partnership say if I request quantifying then they will have to provide it. I think tribunal will be over content and placement. It's looking more likely we're going to need Independent provision as dd is at a functional level of a 6/7 year old and academically at the level of a 15 year old. Shes 13. She doesn't appear to fit special school or mainstream.

Her proposed statement says things like:
Objective: to extend her ability to focus on task independently for more than 5 mins. The suggested provision for this says "giving support and encouragement for dd to remain focused for greater periods of time with increasing levels of independence!"

That's as specific as it gets in the whole thing.

Wet, it beggars belief doesn't it. Sorry you are up against their stupidity again as well.

I washoping that as outreach is run by the LEA SENDIST could overrule their policy and insist he still gets the report. Unfortunately it all seems academic now, as they will already have removed the provision and done the damage by the time our appeal is heard.

I have had the whole sobstory about them being underfunded and having to help as many children as possible, so my ds cannot be allowed to use up too much reasource etc from both the school and the service. I told them, I really do sympathise, it's crap how squeezed these services are and something I get very angry about, but I can't save everyone and at present all I am interested in is making sure my child gets the support he needs to make sure he can access education and not have another breakdown.

Sazale, your situation sounds very similar,- devolved funds, total lack of quantification and specification and flat out refusal to do so. All the advice we've been given from here and charities like IPSEA has said we have no choice but to go to tribunal as, like your LEA, they aren't actually stating it, but they obviously have a blanket policy not to specify or quantify. In fact our LEA have been reported to the Sec of State for it in the past and IPSEA says they are notorious.

Ds is similar in terms of emotional delay and academic skills, although his academic results slid when he had a breakdown across years 3 and 4, so he's still catching up at the moment. I'm pretty sure he isn't going to cope with mainstream secondary, everyone agrees ss wouldn't be right either and there are no runits at all in our borough for ASD without specific learning difficulties.

Blimey, my typing. Sorry.

Should read "I was hoping" and "still gets the support"

I hope you get it sorted without too much trouble. My dd hasn't been in classes since October when she couldn't cope anymore and academically has barely progressed apart from Maths. Fortunately she was ahead so theoretically hasn't impacted it as much as it old have. School put in their report for SA that she wouldn't be able to access lessons for years to one but then sent her home with a timetable last week for year 9 showing her in classes with the message that it may change! She's been on the ceiling since but insist she's gonna do it! She gets like this and acts like she's invincible but of course it's not realistic and she will crash big time in a week or 2. In the meantime we get manic anxiety in massive proportions. It's a bit bi-polarish but she profiles PDA which I understand involves this type of behaviour.

We visited the only ASD unit here and it is no good as all kids have to go into mainstream classes. Robert Ogden School (NAS) is in our borough so we've been there but they can't accommodate her academic ability. All speial schools say the same apart from 1 which is full and the peer group doesn't feel right.

Everyone we've spoke to at the special schools have said that she needs independent as no adequate provision for children academically capable. They also said that parents that dig their heels in tend to get what they want from our LEA. I hope they're right. A new independent school opened in the next city and are part of a well renowned group so we're going to the open evening next Thursday. They only have 6 children there ATM of which some are funded by my lea and the woman I spoke to said that my lea like them! If we like it dd will attend for a couple of days and they will do an assessment to see if they can meet her needs and then give us the report for the lea.

Have you found anywhere that you want your DS to o to? It's driving me insane!

Oh Sazale, that sounds just like ds is at the moment. He's all over the place with y5-6 transition and either manically running around being hyperactive and hysterical or sobbing and wailing or having huge anger outbursts. He struggles with annual transition every year, but this year he is leaving a truly exceptional teacher who he adores and he knows he only has one year left at this school.

5 weeks to go till the end of term, Lord only knows what he'll be like by the last week of term. If they tell him he won't be seeing his outreach teacher next year I'm seriously worried about what he might do. We had an episode of self-harm at Christmas following a great deal of disruption at school and I am so scared he'll try it again.

A unit where ds had support, but still attended mainstream lessons would work for my ds, but there isn't one such until in the whole of the borough and nothing over the border either. Basically, all we have is mainstream academies (he wants to go to the local one with his classmates) or one particular out of borough independent, but that would mean an hour's travel morning and afternoon for him and he wouldn't cope with that. He's already exhausted when he gets in from school and we only live across the road, so no travel time. There is a fantastic ASD school locally, but they have a massive waiting list and can't currently cater for high functioning - although I believe they are planning to in the future.

I will keep my fingers crossed for the independent school for your dd, it's sounds hopeful that there are other children from your LEA there already, as that sets the precedent you need to get your dd in.

I will admit to having my head in the sand about it all really. Haven't even booked appointments to visit yet, as I stupidly convinced myself we'd do it after the statement was done and dusted (which should have been almost two weeks ago if they hadn't done the dirty on us). Have diaried in Monday next week to make the phonecalls and arrange the appointments.