How do you discipline an ASD child?

[extremepie]

I am acutely aware the my disciplining tacticts for DS, who has ASD, are virtually non existant at the moment and I want to start instilling a more structured way of punishment if he does something wrong (which is right in line with his current speech therapy target!)

I'm also aware that the current situation isn't very fair on my older DS (who gets a naughty step/time out kind of thing), as he probably sees his brother doing all sorts and (to his mind) 'getting away with it'.

Trouble is I just don't know where to start!

He is 4 and is non-verbal, his level of understanding is not great most of the time (although it is hard to tell).

He won't sit on a naughty step, I don't want to put him in his room for a time out because he will then start to see his bedroom as a place of punishment and will be even harder to get him to sleep at night. Plus all his toys are in there!

Any ideas? Things that you might have tried, even if it didn't work?

I really need some help!

The courses run by ambitious about autism are great (ABA based). They even do a specific "challenging behavior" one. Trouble is they are only at one location & courses are spread far apart.

Have you had a chance to do the NAS Help course yet? I know lots of people with kids of that age have found it very helpful.

The book the 5P approach by Linda Miller is brilliant. It's excellence lies in the simplicity of her method iykwim.

You need to make the link between action and consequence very specific, so that he begins to connect the two very closely. You need to analyse what is important to him and what isn't so that the consequence is something he doesn't want to happen. If he doesn't care about it, it's an ineffective sanction.
For example, I could have banned my DS from playing football for a year and he would have been delighted.
Likewise, his room is his safe space, banishment doesn't work if it is a place you want to be.
You also need to share what's happening with your older one so that he understands that his brother is being disciplined equally but differently.
It takes a while, and is very hard work but really worth doing.

I've coincidentally posted quite a relevant blog entry about autism and behaviour today. It has a link to Autism West Midlands, who recently published an article about the issue, which I'm sure is probably on the site somewhere.

autisticson.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/supernaughty/

I am watching with interest, I havent been successful in finding a strategy that works with DD3.

And we have exactly the same problem with DD2 thinking that she has got away with bad behaviour.

I currently use a yellow and red card system similar to the footballers. If she gets a red card she has to stop what she is doing and move away.

Any form of disapline results in screaming rages, foot stamping and door slamming.

I am on a waiting list to go on a course but nothing so far.

I am also watching with interest. Perennial problem is that any form of discipline makes things worse if not triggers a meltdown. DS2 is watching and sees DS1 getting away with things he would not. Even worse - majority of issues that I want to instil some form of discipline relate to DS1's behaviour toward DS2. How do I say 'it's not OK' when I appear to be acting as if it is OK?

Been advised that specific social stories are the key and to video interaction with DS2 because the problem is that DS1 is not reading body language and non-verbal cues and not stopping behaviour that is problematic for DS2. I would then watch with DS1 and freeze frame facial expressions etc.

Local f2f support group been great - set up teaching of how to write social stories for newbies and full of practical suggestions. Maybe we could do something similar on MNSN?

I think punishment is the wrong approach. What you are trying to do is reward him for good behaviour, and extinguish bad behaviour. And if he is not behaving well very often what do you then?

First read How To Talk So Children Listen. It challenges the whole behavourist approach and replaces it with things like distraction, intervention, involvement, pre-empting triggers, consequences (but in a child centred way rather than just threats and punishments) It was written for NT children but I think it works brilliantly with ASD too, because child feels secure.

But I think there are exceptions, where you have to act more ruthlessly. A good example would be if your child hits someone. The ASD course I went on, emphasizes total extinction for violent behaviour. So even though you know your child is very upset, and that is why he is hitting, or is experiencing some sensory overload etc, you take the line that you want to EXTINGUISH that behaviour. So whilst I used to comfort/excuse my son (now 10) for hitting (not that often but getting worse as his frustrations increase), or tell him off, or threaten no telly, or send him upstairs angrily, I now do the following (and you can imagine a 10 year old is quite difficult to discipline)

I go up to him. Take him by the hand, and remove him from the room immediately. I don't argue with him, I don't discuss his reasons for it, I don't comfort him for being upset, or give him a sugar lump or such like, or ban him from telly for the rest of the week, or scream that he is not allowed to hit people. All this is going to up the anti. But he knows I have responded immediately and he is not allowed to continue that particular behaviour which was presumably giving him some satisfaction Above all I don't raise my voice, I don't get upset, I just ACT. He stays in his room for 10 minutes. And he knows hitting is unacceptable because I react so quickly. What I don't do is rant and rave and explain things to him, he just knows he is not going to get away with it in any context. And he doesn't want me to be so cool and uninvolved, he wants me to get involved, so being detached is a way of "punishing" him, if you like, although I prefer to call it extinction.

But if you read the book you will see that what you are after is a situation where the child doesn't need to hit people to express bad feelings, because you are allowing him communicate in other ways.
Ditto throwing things, you replace that with throwing things that are allowed, or messing things, you replace that with messy stuff that is allowed etc etc.

My child is HFA, but I suspect this is true of relating to most children whether ASD or not.

I think you also have to decide what behaviour you can put up with and what you really can't put up with, so picking your battles is the key. So if your child has an obsession with Formula 1, as mine does, it is no point suddenly announcing that you are turning it off, you would have to get him used to the idea that telly ends when you say (a routine of telly switch off!) or else accept that he needs to watch it to the end.
If he doesn't eat x and y and you think he should, try and think of something he likes eating (which is nutritious, if repetitive) and praise him for it, make meal times relaxed, and stop worrying that he does't eat what everyone else eats. It is not worth it. If his table manners are terrible, but he eats well, don't make a point of criticising his table manners, be positive about some other aspect of the meal time - he can help you clear up with a dustpan, wipe the table, help you lay it,not because you are cross with him, but because he is helping you.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that when you focus on negative behaviour you never get the chance to tell the child what is great about them, and that leads to a bad vibe, which often results in worse behaviour. There is always something to praise, it makes such a difference.

I agree about choosing your battles, I ignore a huge amount of low level poor behaviour.

I have days when it gets too much though, and the banging, growling and shouting just becomes too wearing.

I get absolutley no back up from DP and he refuses to use any strategies that I introduce, in fact we have had many arguments [not in front of the DC's!!] about strategies in general.

TBH, it is DP that needs to go on a behaviour management course. Becasue inconsistency is gauranteed [sp] to make for a difficult time.

Dd3 homes in on DP and then looks at me to see if I am going to say anything, if I do she yells at me and if I don't I give the message that it is ok to behave like that towards her Dad.

I would love to solve this.

Ineed it's taken a while for dh to use a strategy, rather than just gut reaction. Mostly his gut reaction has been to be lovely to ds, and get on very well with him, and then be apalled when he behaves badly. Now he's beginning to see that the bad behaviour is part of ds's ASD personality, not just some blip which will go away if he gets cross. He did read Tony Attwood about ASD, and I think he was so upset and shocked by it, that it made him change his view that ds was entirely normal, just having a bad day. So he adapted accordingly.

We agree on the extinction stuff, we agree on talking firmly to him, and setting boundaries, but dh still finds it hard when ds goes off on a bender about some 4 hour football match, and doesn't get that once he starts watching that's it. Dh thinks if they have agreed to watch till 8.30 ds will meekly agree to stop watching mid match.. No way, screaming fit. For example this week we had a talk (starting with an argument) where we agreed that ds was watching too much telly and it was affecting his mood - initially dh took the line that we could do nothing to stop ds, whereas I said we just had to show we were in charge and tell him No. Ds seems to have got the message. I think we were both frightened of offending ds!That sounds ridiculous... I think ds is fine being offered alternatives as long as he knows we mean business.

we'll get there in the end

I don't punish at all to be honest because I find it hard to tell what is the autism and what's not and I'd never punish a behaviour caused by the autism.
That's not to say that mine are ill disciplined because they are probably the most well behaved children with autism I know.
I choose any battle carefully probably because I can't afford to lose as ds would lose the security he has in his boundaries and then he'd go about trying to take control.
I offer them chances to do the right thing "you can choose" signifies to them that I am offering them a way out. If they make the right choice they will be rewarded, if they make the wrong choice they need to do it in their rooms or if they refuse I remove myself and my attention and they don't get it back until the unwanted behaviour has stopped.
They generally comply because there is something in it for them tbh. Ds gets washed and dressed when he gets up because once that's done he can have his laptop.He baths or showers at night because he wants the dvd that follows it. He stays in his room at night and stays quiet because if he disturbs me I will only allow his books and pens and paper to stay in his room.If he's polite and well mannered and generally nice to have about he gets his weekly magazines.If I need him to comply with something he finds difficult I generally have something to offer as an incentive a new book, dvd or magazine.
It works here anyway.

Ineed
one of things that happened with dh and ds is that dh gives an enormous amount of time and attention to ds, so ds behaves actually pretty well most of time with his dad. HOWEVER, ds now believes that dh is his personal attendant, so we had to teach him that dh would not always play with him, talk to him; conversely dh believed that ds needed his constant attention. So dh had to learn that he could say No, and that ds would manage without him.

Bedtime story was dh's job, now he has realised that ds can survive if I read one instead!

That's an extreme going the other way of being overconsistent, but if your dp made some special time with dd maybe that would be a good strategy - like something they do together however simple, could be a chore even. Maybe he does already. But that makes it much easier to get into a routine of expecting certain behaviour from a child. It just happens naturally that they behave better because everything is familiar and they get a consistently positive response whilst doing a certain activity.

Insanity I think you are right that once you have a routine of behaviour followed by positive response, it is easier to keep things in order. I think when you expect a child with ASD to make it up as they go along, and work out what is expected of them using "commonsense" you are in trouble. You have to make it clear what you want them to do, and how to do it, in the nicest kindest simplest way. Sometimes then they go on to behave better than your NT children

Agreeing you have to pick your battles and you have to do something that your own DC will respond to best. I take a very different approach with each of mine. DS1 has far more understanding but doesn't have much in the way of a conscience to appeal to. Our biggest difficulty with him is protracted grumpy, aggressive behaviour. In this sort of mood, he is not allowed screen time (computer or DSi - TV has no hold on him so we don't count that). He is also demand avoidant, so we have to make a big use of first [thing he must do] then [thing he really wants to do].

DS2, on the other hand, is so different and is only just learning about pushing boundaries. Much of the time, a firm "no" with accompanying finger wag, possibly with a means of distracting him to hand is all that is needed to, for example, stop him from pulling out the furniture so he can bed the radiator pipes (oh yes!) His biggest thing at the moments is pinching or hitting me or squeezing my chin. Again, I'm firm with the "no" and I emphasise "I don't like that." with a cross voice. If he persists, I stand up, turn his back to me and hold his hands and say nothing. The punishment aspect is secondary - it gets him bored and breaks the cycle. If he comes back and approaches me more gently, I then give him the attention he wants and help him to touch my chin gently, emphasising "nice and gentle" "nice and soft" "that was lovely."