Had annual review and a bit bemused...can anyone shed any light on this?

[PolarEyes]

Hello all. I used to post here ages ago and I have come back to rather cheekily ask for some help.

Annual review did not go well but there is one particular area that I could do with some help on....

DS1's statement is for 25 hours, with 5 coming from school's own budget.

School are claiming they actually need 36hrs 25 minutes which is 10 hours beyond total school hours including lunch. 4 TA's are totalled up to 23 hours.

The remaining 13hrs 15 minutes is not for preparation time but because when it is a Class Teacher providing the support is rated at 4 times that of the LSA Rate. So 2.5hrs of class time = 10hrs of statemented hours. This is not 1:1 with DS1; there is 2 hours (so 30 actually minutes) with DS and small group 10 hours (2.5hrs on whole class basis). There is also 1hr 15 minutes (so 20 minutes) on Whole school (assembly)

Is this standard? It just seems a bit weird to me. He doesn't currently get the assembly time, cover at lunch and does not have TA for 1 afternoon a week so I assume the Class Teacher's 2.5hrs is actually the afternoon when there is no TA there.

Many thanks

Wtf?

That sounds way too complicated and horrendously contrived to be legal!

I used to be a SENCo and have never come across something like this.They seem to have turned it on its head and looked at how much it will cost, rather than how many hours of actual support he will need. If the class teacher is teaching the whole class, rather than 1:1 with your DS they can't claim extra money for that.
Have you tried ringing IPSEA?

When my ds was in mainstream i learnt that sort of situation is the schools concern not mine.

Our duty is to our children, not the financial cost or implications of a statement to a school or LEA

Your school/SENCO are well aware its their issue&it sounds like they are being difficult.

Strongly suggest you call IPSEA or local Parent Partnership.

Best of luck.

It sounds like bollocks to me. Teachers are not paid an hourly rate, they have a salary. It's only when they have to get supply teachers in that they look at hourly rates. The teacher is paid a salary to do their job, part of which is to differentiate lessons. It should be none of your concern, your DS needs 25 hours of support, that's what he should get. If the class teacher spends time 1:1 with him, then the TA can cover the rest of the class for that time on work set by the teacher.

Thanks for all the replies.

Glad it's not just me that thinks this utter bullshit! Even the specialist teacher who works for the LA had not heard of this type of allocation before. The SENCo did say their school budget was £36,000 short and all TAs that were not for statemented children had their hours cut by 15%. DS1 doesn't have a dedicated TA as his left in February and they have been unable to recruit another so his 23 hours of support is provided by 4 TAs in total. I don't think it requires a huge leap to see they are desperate for extra funding.
I do understand they are squeezed and LAs are tight with funding but there have been a few reasonably big incidents recently really long thread about them here and they always fall outside of his statemented hours which is why I asked for a breakdown. But the breakdown is not correct as they have told me he is unsupported at lunch, assembly and Thursday afternoons .
Apparently he started having support at breaks at some time since reception but she cannot remember when that happened. Also the LSA support timetable for him varies every couple of weeks so there are no set times he has support apart from definitely at every break time. . This was when I pointed out the first main incident was a Thursday afternoon when a TA was present but less than 6 weeks later at the 3rd incident on a Thursday afternoon I was told he didn't have TA cover on a Thursday afternoon due to his breaktime cover.

The rep has advised me to leave it a couple of weeks, then ring and find out what has happened about the request for extra hours. The LA is 99% likely to turn them down so I am then to ask what this means for the school - e.g. does this now mean they are unable to meet his educational needs and take it from there.

Sorry for all the rambling I am still a bit wound up from the meeting!

Thanks again everyone, you are all fab.

It is not for the school to meet his needs. It is the LA's statutory responsibility. If the school aren't delivering what is in his statement or interpreting it outside of the law then it is the LA that is responsible.

They can give the school a TA and then bill them for it if they want, or they can find a volunteer. The costings/accountancy and management is none of your business and you do not what to hear about their whinges. Write to the LA, ask for clarification, insist it is resolved with immediate effect.

I suspect the 2 week wait, is just the beginning of the 6 week wait that will take you to the summer holidays.

I do get what you are saying, but if the school are saying they need an additional 10 hours 15 minutes to deliver his statement but the LA refuse what happens then? The rep is from a charity btw and said even though it is an Annual Review the LA will take an eternity to decide about additional hours.

The other things is, this was supposed to have been an Emergency Review due to afore-mentioned serious incidents, but has ended up being later than when his Annual Review should have been done. Do I have any recourse with the LA not doing what they said they would do?

Okay.

Statement says 25 hours right?

Is he getting those 25 hours?

What is the exact wording of the statement?

When was the Annual Review actually due to have taken place?

Hi Polareyes - I remember you from way back . Were you from the land of stiletto heels or am I thinking of someone else? I only ask because it sounds like the sort of thing they would come up with and I've seen a document somewhere about how the support is calculated that sounds similar to what they're quoting at you. Your ds's situation is very like my ds's e.g overdue for annual review,school wanting more hours, no support at lunchtimes etc.

I don't think he is getting 25 hours. The school say he is. can't lay my hands on his statement atm but it is says "25hrs of lsa support (of which 5hrs to be provided from school's own resources) to be deployed in accordance with school's timetable." The only thing I have in black and white is he gets 23 hours of TA support and then this weird 13 hrs 15 minutes of Class Teacher Level support.

Statement date is 25th may. review was done today. 1st annual review wasn't done until October 2011 as the SENCo didn't think she had to do it until he had been at school for a year rather than the anniversary date of when it was issued (he was still in preschool when it was issued). I contacted the LA on 20th April and the SEN Officer said he would arrange for Emergency statement review. perhaps it is deemed an Emergency one but there is no paperwork to support that?

hey desperately I am indeed from stiletto heels land. In fact having a mums night out to Baz Vegas next month . Ah that does make sense if she is calculating according to some weird funding banding thing. Cos if you revert the weird x4 hours down it would mean DS1 would have a full-time statement in "real terms". My may concern is he still wouldn't actually get the benefit of it and will keep it as 23 hrs of LSA and the rest Class Teacher. Which I feel is a huuuuge cop-out and a bit norty tbh. Sorry things are not great with your DS either. I just get such conflicting information from the school. They tell us he plays happily at lunchtime and break time with other children and doesn't need support. and they they are applying for additional hours so he can have support at these times . He also also gone from being unassessable in February to being at 2c in English and Maths this month!

Polar if you look at the SEN Funding Guidance here here might be useful

try this

Hi. as a specialist sen teacher, when I was in mainstream, they one hour of me was equivalent to Four TA hours. so one to one or very small group teaching from me for an hour had to go down on the form to theLEA as separate from say in class support or small group teaching from a TA. I was in a special unit so the students got the support whatever it said on the statement to be honest. We gave a rolls Royce service but I know that has changed which is partly why I left because The boss didn't,t like us going and supporting in class even though this is essential to inform the small group teaching and to get a whole picture of the child. any arguments regarding money and hours is between the school and their
Lea. I have to say that the Lea are going to laugh at the. For the request for more hours. 25 hours is pretty huge and if he is in a small group with a teacher then that should be happening anyway as part of those students education. what comes across though is that there is a pattern of where there is a problem. With my son it was when he was with a particular TA who wound him up. Oh and pe lessons always a guaranteed tantrum zone!

thanks desperately I found the 4 hour thing on there. I think the school are trying their luck on a loophole tbh. As the Class Teacher time without LSA seems to be something they want to recoup via the LA. But she kinda has to teach the class anyway?!?
Hi inaflap. The breakdown is "23hrs of support his statement of educational needs" 12 hours "to meet his learning objectives" and 1hr15 minutes "to support during assembly". I think they are pushing it a bit and I can't see the LA agreeing. And even if the LA were to agree I don't think DS will get any benefit from it and I will get the same old nonsense about "he doesn't have a TA at that time" when there is yet another incident caused by their negligence.

I'm waiting for the Specialist Teacher to call me back this afternoon but I am half-tempted to contac the SEN officer to get some timescales from him. I really cannot go through the summer holidays without knowing what is going to happen from September.

thanks again everyone.

Well I've got to the bottom of all the weird hours requests. Apparently from this year all schools in my county now have a larger delegated budget thingy so have to kick in 12.5 hours and not 5 so it looks like DS1's school is trying to recoup theirs. Though they have shot themselves in the foot as apparently County will not like the fact he is only getting 23hrs of LSA support and they are using 2hrs for 30 mins of teacher time in small groups and will probably be ordered to revert to 25 LSA hours. of course proving that they have done what they are told is impossible isn't it. DS1's IEP is over due an I think it is because the SENCo is very annoyed with me.sigh.