Please help - SALT target

[appropriatelyemployed]

OK, I am a bit annoyed.

First, SLT went into school and I didn't know she was coming. School didn't say and neither did she. TA didn't mention it when she had been. She did, however, ring me a few days later.

Second, SLT spoke about the need to address DS 'laughing inappropriately' at other children's mistakes. This had been raised as a possible IEP target by his TA at a meeting with the head after she had reprimanded him after one such incident. I asked then whether it was really an issue and it had been agreed not to pursue it. She had then clearly tried to get the SLT to do it.

Third, there has been a consistent list of incidences with DS's TA and him. She has, I feel, managed him inappropriately even calling him lazy or naughty and picking fights and then not knowing how to manage him when he had got upset.

The TA did not share any of these incidence with the SLT.

The SLT has produced new targets - below. I feel they are reactive and will end up being used negatively (although they say 'based on positive events initially'), inevitably with this TA. I just feel they will end up as her chance to to tell DS what he has been doing wrong with no constructive way of making this right as she cannot manage or anticipate day to day events.

I think things like Comic Strip are best used proactively to teach and prepare and not retrospectively to tell him how he shouldn't act.

No one has any ASD training. What if he doesn't agree? What if he has a meltdown because they start going over something he didn't realise he had 'got wrong'?

What about managing this proactively by working on expected behaviours and rewarding them in a structured consistent way?

Also, he is 9 and a half and very intelligent. Sitting side by side with a TA he no longer likes going on about what he has done wrong is a recipe for disaster.

Ditto the 'not so good list in the second target.

This SLT is really trying and I feel awful as I have had to say I am not really happy about this but it is all about context and in a relationship that has gone sour, I don't seen these targets as helping.

What do you think?

Target 1

Baseline

DS can find it hard to understand others thoughts and feelings within interactions.

Target

For DS to participate in one conversation per day on an individual basis, involving the use of Comic Strip Conversations. Initially, the conversations to be based on positive events.

Intervention/Strategies

Sit side by side, with a piece of paper or small whiteboard as the focus of the conversation. Introduce as ?We are going to draw / do some diagrams as we talk?. Draw stick figures with speech and thought bubbles as you explore together key questions:

• where are you?
• who else is here?
• when is it happening?
• what you doing?
• what happened / what did others do?
• what did you say?
• what did others say?
• what did you think when you said that?
• what did others think when they said that?

DS doesn?t give all the answers to the questions. The adult should also provide these so participation is shared, or the adult can give all of the answers. If DS seems to enjoy the approach, start by introducing slightly more difficult topics.

Target 2

Baseline

DS can find it difficult to think about positive things at school if he is feeling anxious about a situation.

Target

For DS to participate in a 5 minute conversation at the end of each school day, involving the use of a visual list re ?Good things that have happened today? and ?Not so good things that have happened today?

Intervention/Strategies
Sit side by side with the visual list as the focus for the conversation. The adult to write down the positive things that they have observed, and allow DS to contribute if he wants to. Then ask him if he wants anything written in the ?Not so good? list. If he does, then write what he says. If he doesn?t, leave it blank.

The list can then go home with DS and may be useful for helping him to think about positive events at school, as well as anxieties. Long term - it may help him to being to share anxieties at school.

the targets look OK to me AE but isn't the real issue that nobady has had any ASD specific training? They probably just don't undertand the condition at all. A bit like me pre-dx when I hadbn't a clue what the problem was with DS. Post-dx I read all I could and, as a result, I understood the condition and could (just as you have) develop my own strategies.

Isn't getting the TA on some sort of ASD awareness training an imperative?

This kind of intervention assumes that the adult in question understands ASD. Yours doesn't.

Letter or email to SALT and school

1. Remind them of the usual ettiquette of letting the parent know what the fook is going on prior to any visits, needed asap.

1. TA is not qualified or authroised to participate in target setting discussions , without your prior agreement & active involvement in any discussions.

1. Reminder as to the fact ASD training has still not taken place, and this is leading to a breakdown in the relationship between your son & the TA.

I'm too tired to attempt to word that correctly but hopefully you'll get the gist

Have you looked at the incredible 5 point scale? My DS is using a very simplified version of this to achieve similar goals in relation to the inferred feelings of others. (he's a couple of years younger so the original 5 point scale is way too sophisticated)

The TA might have been a teacher in her previous role but she's utterly untrained and lacking in the core competencies for her current job. How are you getting on with the organisation of that multi-disciplinary meeting?

Tbh AE, Without knowing your Ds, they sound like okay targets (although I woukd prefer them to be a little more concise with less questions bu more opportunities to practice, so he can know they are coming and think on them during the day rather than feel interrogated and not certain what questions woukd be asked iyswim).

I think the main issue is your distrust of the TA and the possibility that these targets are not actually for the benefit of your Ds, but for her and for the purpose of collecting evidence. And that she would abuse them for her own needs.

Whether the targets are appropriate or not Really depends on how the baseline was derived. What target would precede these ones and has he met them?

Thanks. I think you are right.

They do come as a change of tack actually. Targets already set for social skills groups. But these have been added.

I agree with you. The lack of training and the distrust is the issue. I have tried to explain it in those terms to the SLT.

I suppose my problem too is that I think the targets are a bit odd in isolation when there is nothing in place, absolutely nothing, to support positive behaviour.

A daily post mortem just seems depressing.

Yes that is a point. Coukd you get the questions reduced and use the answers to inform planning of practice sessions the next day?

That might be positive?

Yes. Good idea.

I have to say that I was also a bit annoyed that when the SLT came in it was morning and she was told that DS's social skills group was in the afternoon and the TA refused to move the session.

She said it was because it would be too disruptive but the SLT was there to support the social skills group and so had to then talk about it second hand rather than see it and amend targets.

Target 2 sounds like they are trying to say the negative attitude about school, is coming from you. At the end of day, when TA 'reminds' him off all the good things about school and your ds doesnt have the confidence or whatever to explain the situations he regards as 'bad', will this result in school thinking he doesnt actually have any anxieties or perceive situations as 'bad' anymore?(sorry but i am tainted!)

Although i agree with focussing on the positives of the day, i hate to see a child's feelings pushed aside, the positives of the day are not what is making him anxious. Deal with the reason why he is feeling anxious in the first place, rather than trying to mask it with 'happy thoughts'?

Why couldnt the adult write down the negative things that they have observed, and allow DS to add some if he wants and encourage ds to try to find solutions, as well as the positives?

come back to this, this morning & I share claw4's concerns re target 2 methinks. Great if you are trying to gather evidence that everything is tickety boo (against parental opinion). A weapon against you in the wrong hands.

Have you looked at the 5P approach?- it's how we tackle behavior management. AS DS articulates what makes him feel "Green" it's very child led (rather than overbearing TA cos is also prone to strong opinions that can get in the way at times). ABA lite for dummies - it's written for mainstream staff so might suit someone who is a teacher. You could get the TA a copy of the book as a pressie - at £20 it's a lot cheaper than many SEN publications.

Surely if the TA acknowledges his 'negative' feelings too, rather than sitting there telling him how good school is, this would give him the confidence to share his anxieties.

This happens so much to ds in school, i take ds to the teacher and encourage him to tell her what he has told me he is anxiety about. It is met with a well meaning 'oh dont be silly' or 'of course that wont happen' or a lets take his mind off of it 'it will be fun'. I literally watch ds's communication shut down there and then.

A far better approach would be 'i can see you are feeling anxious about X, what do you think we should do about it'

But that's the worry I guess Claw. That in a good school with A trust worthy TA who is determined to get to the bottom of anxieties and improve outcomes, they are not bad targets at all ( with a bit of tightening).

This is an incredibly difficult situation to fight because AE can risk coming across as excessively negative especially as despite not being perfect the targets are a lot better than many people get.

But targets alone are not the answer here. Even a well written target delivered by someone who doesn't 'get it' won't help. And the reason I think there are just too many questions is more to do with the TAs capability than Mini AE. She'll lose focus.

For example ABA is fantastic for so many of our children, but delivered by someone who doesn't understand both the child and the methodology can actually cause damage.

Dismissing the whole SALT visiting protocol which does need challenge if only lightly, can you enthuse about the targets but make some suggestions for improvements?

If it was Ds, I'd like to see the questions asked at the same time of day, every day. For them to be the same questions, worded exactly the same. The targets aren't language ones they are social. They can be written as a list and ticked off or have the answers written besides. There should also be a box that shows whether the answer was spontaneous or whether prompting was needed. The TA should be aiming for a reduction in prompts over time.

The questions should be about a social situation that occurred very shortly prior to the session. Again, this is a social skills exercise not a memory/recall one.

The social situation should be VERY simple to start with and probably start with something pretty routine.

Does any of that help?

X posts with loads.

It's now hurting my head. Can't think what it must be doing to yours.

So many knowledgable people.............

It is a nightmare because she is not likely to sit there and talk about how she callled him rude or lazy is she?

Thanks Star. I will use that suggestion for the SLT.

Star, that is true, i think thats why the target has been set in the first place, they think the negative attitude about school is coming from AE.

Ds needs help to find solutions to his anxieties, not to be given a list of the good things about school. I dont see how ONLY focussing on the good things about school, is going to give him the confidence to discuss the 'bad' things, the things that make him anxious.

I dont see how an adult steering the conversation constantly to 'good' things about school, is going to help to disccuss 'bad' things, which is the target. Its too abstract. They need to be demonstrating that they a) have noticed the 'bad' things and acknowledge them b) help him to move on from them.

But as you say its a tricky one.

What is the success criteria for target 2?

Claw they don't just think this to be fair.

There are actual incidents throughout the day that the TA tells us about at the end of the day.

This is not a question of DS just going home and saying things that no one was aware of.

We have had a succession of incidents of non-compliance and DS responding badly to his TA because, I feel, she doesn't know how to 'manage' him.

It is not like last year, in the old school, where school said 'we don't see anything' and DS was compliant and quiet!

The input into these targets has come from the TA alone as far as I know and no one else.

I see them as being an attempt to have her 5 mins with DS daily to tell him how he has been doing things wrong and so deflect from her management of the situation

Sorry i assumed that your ds sharing his anxieties at school, was the problem.

So you think your ds is anxious about a situation and the TA doesnt know to manage it?

I think he is always doing what she wants him to and doesn't know how to 'make him' and so she is using a target like this to try and address his behaviour.

I think positive retrospection about social skills achievement is helpful but if you are trying to address problem behaviour or difficulties, you need to start with recognising what is leading to it.

It is often DS being forced in to conflict 'do it or else' situations or getting stressed over what seems like silly little things (e.g. not being able to go into class the way he usually does because the TA has decided he needs to line up with everyone else).

She tries to change things without planning for it or she decides to pick him over things like 'messy eating' and then wonders why he gets annoyed with her.

Ideally a TA who knows what she is doing, as others have said is the best solution!

But im just trying to think of ways to work with the targets you have been given.

Maybe the target should be to 'help ds manage his anxieties' thereby giving the TA strategies to use?

Thanks Claw. That is the approach I am going to follow. That these need to be planned and managed and not talked about retrospectively where that may only inflame an already difficult relationship.

Can i ask AE, what do you think has given your ds the confidence to speak up or act upon something he doesnt like? Is it confidence do you think, or just really having enough of it all?

I remember our ds's were very alike about compliance etc. Ds is 8 and a bit now, so the age gap is close too. Ds seems to be slipping more and more into a overly compliant role.

Obviously complaince is good to a certain degree, but ds is really extreme. The only thing that he will not comply with is his eating, he uses this to the extreme to have some control over his life.

You know what Claw, that's the worst thing. The TA was wonderfully supportive and had a fab relationship with him when she started so he opened up and felt much more confident about speaking his mind.

Then, it transpired, when the ABA consultant came in, that DS had maybe got a bit too relaxed and was deciding what he would do and what he wouldn't and she was tolerating this as she didn't know what else to do.

I think she found that intervention really undermining and took it as 'he's playing you up, put your foot down'. Her relationship with DS changed completely after that.

So I actually think the half-cocked ABA intervention made things worse.

That is such a shame, its the same old thing time and time again, why do these people have such a problem with admitting they dont understand. Would it be so terrible for them to ask for help with understanding. I really dont get why they just dont want to understand.