Helping others with Tribunal

[appropriatelyemployed]

I saw the post below about the stress of Tribunal and I really sympathise. We pulled our children out of school 3 weeks before ours when it dawned on us that no amount of extra hours or S&LT would make school honour our son's statement and support him.

What I have learnt since is the depths to which the LA will go to attack a parent who is challenging them. Despicable, without morals and any sense of public service ethos.

I am a lawyer. I am not an education lawyer. I have access to legal databases and some experience of the system.

If I can help anyone out there - even just by offering a fresh pair of eyes or talking you through the rules etc or helping with DPA/FOI requests etc - let me know.

If there are others out there who can help, perhaps we can band together??

One point I would stress. If you are dealing with health professionals, they have a duty of confidentiality to your child and are required by the Data Protection Act to get your consent to releasing information. Make sure they do this. A simple letter asking them to obtain your information before disclosing documents may mean you stop some of the crap they usually file on behalf of the LA.

Hi ya Starfish, I have private OT, EP and SALT. LA's EP and SALT have also assessed ds. CAMHS assessed ds for year and half and have made it perfectly clear what is responsible for his anxiety and self injury and wrote a report in support of a statement, they have now discharged ds.

Although these 'reports' are now out of date, his needs havent changed. They just need to follow the recommendations.

I think its 'standard' that assessments have to be within a year, but if school are agreeing that these assessments are 'damaging' for ds, i dont see why they need to be repeated.

I think this would only happen if your school were saying that they needed a statement and all parties agreed, on the basis of recently obtained reports (with the professionals confirming needs remained the same) that (a) they understood the child's needs and (b) everyone was agreed exactly what was required to meet them.

The LA has a statutory responsibility to undertake an assessment as the first step in the process to obtaining a statement so that it can ensure it meets is statutory responsibility to identify all the areas of need and the provision required to meet it.

So:

(i) with school and LA against you, you are not going to agree need and/or provision with them so there will always be a need to counter evidence with alternative evidence

(ii) the LA will want to start the whole SA ball rolling again as it buys them time and money

You're absolutely right AE, but what you have just written makes me feel physically sick!

I know - that sick feeling is something we get used to isn't it? I can't remember what life was like without some nagging anger, feeling of sickness at the system!

There's a small boy with overwhelming anxiety, self harming in the middle of this waiting for the politics to play out and a family to find the money to pay for evidence that already exists!

I know and I agree. But Claw has already had to fight this once and this LA/school have completely rejected the idea that he needs a statement.

They will make her fight tooth and nail.

The only reason the school are agreeing that assessments makes him stressed is are because they are trying to blame Claw for this. They don't give a shit.

You could write formally to them and say school agree that assessments make him stressed and ask them to undertake a SA on the basis of the evidence filed but why would they? They don't give a shit.

Thanks, just all seems so pointless, school didnt understand the expert reports first time round, they wont understand them second time round either. Still i suppose that is the whole point of Tribunal, school dont have to understand.

I have already written to school with a copy to LA and other relevant parties, stating i agree assessments are stressful, his needs have been identified, lets just get on with giving him the support he needs. I was just wondering if i could insist on no more assessments due to his anxiety, as they only people who can assess anxiety are CAMHS and this isnt part of the process anyhow.

You can always refuse assessments and if it is going to harm your child, then yes, there is an argument for suggesting that no more take place.

But you know what they will do - reject the application.

But then, they are likely to do that anyway so what have you got to lose?

Also:

(i) Can you get written evidence of his anxiety or is this agreed between all the parties? Can you get school to confirm that further tests will be detrimental?

(ii) What evidence are you relying on to get a statement? Is it EP or S&LT tests (they will go out of date)?

(iii) how long ago were these tests undertaken? Can you get practitioners to support their continued validity?

The problem is that the LA will say, we need to assess need now and if it is specific tests like EP/SLT and we cannot test, how can we assess need? Without the school on your side, the chances are not good of anyone agreeing to do anything unless you force them with the weight of your evidence and the mighty hammer of Thor!

And even, then they would force you to a Tribunal first

The last assessment ds had was a SALT assessment, nothing to do with me or the SA process, just a standard yearly update. She comments that although ds showed no signs of anxiety to begin with, he increasingly became distressed, even with plenty of reassurance and obsessed with getting 'things right' and repetitively asked had he got it right (although it did not occur to her to stop the assessment!) she also comments about ds's class teacher told her this happens in the classroom too (although school insist he shows no signs of anxiety in school)

(i) CAMHS have said his anxiety is caused by confusion about his environment and social interaction and understanding. A particular theme evident in thier sessions was unstructured peer group activities at school. School seem to think the problem has to be either a school or home based problem. They dont get that the setting is irrelevant. They dont get that it is FACT that he suffers with high anxiety, whether he demonstrates it at the time or not. School said about these assessments as they are trying to say its my fault and i am saying yeah i agree these assessments are stressful, i dont want any more assessment, i just want ds to get the help that is recommended following these assessments.

(ii) His self injury has increased again, school are not following the recommendations made by CAMHS. Ds has not met any targets with the help he currently has in place. He has schools own version of a motor skills group for example, run by a TA. He has received this help for 2 years. School file shows 2 'check lists' where 18 targets have not been met. Lots of his needs are not targetted.

All reports will be out of date. But school have not followed the recommendations of these reports. My GP is useless, but for £40 will write pretty much what i ask her to, it saves her actually having to read copies of any reports.

EP, SALT and OT were all just over a year ago now.

I think if you want to argue that his anxiety prevents more up to date testing you will need evidence to demonstrate that in respect of testing itself rather than just general anxiety levels. Could CAMHS or your GP help?

It is very likely that even those doing reports for you would want to see him again before throwing their evidential weight behind proposals.

Have to go as desperate 6 year old has been waiting for computer to play Club Penguin but will be back!

Seen as its LA and school who feel these assessments are causing ds's anxiety, will i have to prove anything? Im just agreeing with them. They thought it serious enough to refer to SS (obviously they are blaming me, but i dont see why i cant turn this back on them)

Desperate 6 year olds, trump MN!

I think you need to convey to the LA somehow that it's gonna cost em a LOT more not to concede & award a statement than it is to continue on their current ignorant destructive path.

My mad ideas to try and acheive this.
Can you write and state the issue is one of training to understand the existing assessments as DS's needs haven't changed? Also that you trust that if the LA insist on redoing assessments, even though they realise the distress it will cause your child, that they'll agree to also foot the increased support bill & home tuition needed if he becomes unable to attend school as a result?

Identify a VERY expensive private school that CAN cater to your child's needs as his current one can't and tell em you intend to request it for part 4 unless his needs start being met TODAY (I did this)

You do have the right to be present at any further assessments, to document any damage done to your child as a precursor to a direct disability discrimination case when you've won Tribunal . That risks the LA's pocket being hit.

Claw, you know their point is that they are alleging you are causing the unnecessary assessments not them because they do not think he needs to undergo any more as he doesn't need a statement or any more help.

This is obviously very mean and completely unfair of them but I think pretending this is not what they are saying won't get you very far.

You need evidence of your son's needs as you will be ignored without it or worse still they will turn the screws more tightly on you.

Can you get a GP to support you or get transferred out of the area for a tertiary level referral for a second opinion at a decent hospital? Did you get a formal ASD diagnosis? If not, it may be worth pursing this to one of the tertiary level teams in London e.g. GOSH or Newcommen. You can ask for this on the NHS.

You could do this for the anxiety issue. If you have a sympathetic GP, they should be able to request a referral. This has bollocks all to do with the LA.

Keep your powder dry. See what evidence you can gather for free through NHS referrals or updates from professionals to support you or from your GP or even community paediatrician. Let others do the talking.

Have you lodged your SA application? If not, when you do, you should flag up that he may need specialist provision if he doesn't get appropriate support in m/stream.

Take all the free half hours from solicitors you can get.

Ask someone (one of us here) to cast a dispassionate eye over your application for SA.

Keep your distance from the LA unless you have to engage with them. They will use everything you say against you and nothing you say or do will make them change their position.

You need evidence and I hope you can get it.

Hi there. I just wanted to point out that it is possible to get a statement without any assessments. When my dd stopped attending school at 12, all she had was a dx of AS. I applied for a statutory assessment and she refused to attend any of the assessments. Yet a statement was issued; it was inadequate and I appealed to tribunal. DD still refused any assessments even when the LA tried to throw my appeal out and insisted on assessments.

We won, without a single assessment. It is possible.

If going down the NHS route on the anecdotal evidence I've come across Maudsley's autism clinic & GOSH both seem to lead to good things for the child in the long run. For me the jury is still out on Newcommen.

It is possible but someone, somewhere has to be on your side. You need a professional somewhere, or a school supporting you or there is no incentive to issue a statement.

It has got to be easier for the LA to issue a statement than to fight you no matter how crap that statement is.

There are a couple of assessments you can administer yourself and perhaps discuss with Camhs.Anxiety scale with a child version and a parent version. Strengths and difficulties questionnaire.

If he's already seen slt, OT, ed psych and had assessments, they can review, make recommendations and do a quick update for any reports without having to go back to the beginning of all the tests again.

Great idea AE, if anyone approaches you for help from my neck of the woods I would be happy to offer support if I can.

So, financially speaking, Claw woukd be better off adding no new assessments at this stage, just the old reports with the new evidence to support what is said is still relevant.

This is based on the assumption she'd have to appeal. Towards the end of the 20 week period she'd need to get and submit further assessment/expert opinion(s).

When a statement is granted, assuming she'd then have to appeal content, some time delay plus another 5-6 month appeal timeline woukd mean her expert report was still within a year so win't have to be redone. It may though be worth a short update/visit for a recent opinion but shouldn't cost the whole assessment and report fee.

Good idea Maria.

There are a number of assessments that can be administered by a parent actually but if you have any friends who are teachers/nursery nurses/psychologists - some relevant professional, it might be an idea to either ask them to do it or 'supervise' so it is independently endorsed.

Do you not think that an LA like this will just bin parental updates/assessments in whatever form?

I think updates are a good idea from people who are working with the child or who can see the child again for free if they are on your side.

If you want updates on private reports, they wouldn't test again, but they would still need to see your child, and contact school and discuss progress etc

So, for example, if an independent EP does some detailed standardised testing and sets out problems with say working memory or processing than any update may not involve testing gain formally but it will mean seeing the child again and speaking to school to see how the child is coping. An update like this an cost several hundred pounds. I think any professional worth their salt won't do an update without seeing the child again.

I am sorry if I sound pessimistic but this shitty school and LA turned on Claw at Tribunal and they will do the same.

I have been through this. They will pretend that everything is fine. They will lie.

You need to get evidence to support you and if you can't pay for updates or new reports and NHS professionals are not helpful (and I recall that your OT was not) then you will have to think creatively about how to get specialists involved (may be through tertiary referrals) and introduce something new to change the game being played here by the LA.

Discuss this with your independent experts. But keep your powder dry.

Yes AE, my last post wasn't really for the Claw battle. It was the post before. Trying to figure out the most cost effective way of getting the expert opinion.

But the thing is a professional report for SA might be a waste if the aim of the LA is to go to tribunal again. It woukd be better to get the opinion for the appeal rather than the SA.

Hi AE, i am a lawyer as well n awaiting to hear if the LA will asses my 3.5 years old HF son. I do not practise education law though, any chance you could send me an email n your contact details- would be nice to talk n see how we could help other parents too. I live in Bromley borough.