Siblings - Behaviour???

[chillikate]

Hello Ladies,

I am a Mummy, a MNer and an Assistant Beaver Leader. I'm hoping you may be able to help me out with the last of these.

We have a lad (Yr 2) who has fairly recently been causing us some behavioural issues. It mostly appears to be attention seeking. Since we have introduced a yellow / red card system he has been insistant on getting as many as he can (his words!!). He has been threatened many times with calling his parents to collect him and this week we followed it through, with the biggest screaming / shouting / temper I have ever seen when his Dad arrived.

He is the middle of 3 boys. His older brother has very complex special needs, and part of me in wondering if this could be causing any of his issues (I don't mean his brother, but perhaps the amount of time that his parents need to devote to caring for his brother). His parents have also noticed a decline in his behaviour at home and have kept him off Beavers as a punishment. I haven't wanted to suggest that his family environment may be playing a part because I wanted to look into it a bit first. He parents are lovely and seem like they are trying hard to raise their 3 boys as best they can.

I am concerned that my leader will go down the route of excluding him but if its understanding he needs rather than a troublemaker label then I'll fight against it.

Of course it may just be that he is a little tearaway!!

Any advice / experiences of your own children, or anywhere I can get further advice??

Thanks

What I think might work is a voucher system, if the child likes the yellow cards for the wrong behaviour, I'd start for every 5min of appropriate behaviour, giving him a little printed thing or a football card or tokens or whatever. then count them with him at the end.

He may just be a bit unsure or the rules, unhappy with transitions, needing a clear schedule written up and displayed for each session. Or perhaps he is desperate to liven things up a bit (like lots of beavers, SN or not)

You may choose to keep the yellow card system but perhaps 'pause' this young lads involvement and/or differentiate the level of misbehaviours. I would guess you do that already, a brand new rising 6 yet-to-be-inducted-beaver wouldn't be expected to behave as sensibly as an 8 year old about to go up to cubs.

And if you're still struggling, try not to exclude him, especially if he was settled before. He must really love coming if his parents feel threatening him with 'no beavers' might work. Have you sent some 'big boys' to cubs lately? Some boys don't cope with new 'baby' beavers.

District might be able to lend you an extra volunteer, or maybe a duke of edinburgh candidate or scout might be co-opted to buddy him.

I think the issue was that many offered constructive advice and she wasn't taking it on board. The same advice has been offered numerous times - using positive reinforcement instead of negative - right from the beginning.

I don't think anyone was questioning that she is a volunteer and not "trained" in that regard. Let's face it, none of us as parents were specifically "trained" to deal with children with SNs either, so it's not like we were expecting her to be a trained professional as a scout leader. But if she asks for advice, it's always helpful to actually listen and take it on board, rather than argue that they can't differentiate the behaviour management process.

Triggles, I know you're right, obviously rewarding the positive is almost only the thing that works. I do think we on SN are so used to that (through experience even if not schooled in the theory) that wr can fall into the trap of forgetting how the 'general public' think.

Many of them do think like the Daily Mail , and even the more sensible types will often need it explained that, to effectively train behaviour, you need a vast supply of instant rewards, consistency and far more practice than one might expect.

Yes, I agree. And not trying to argue with you, as obviously we are realistically advising the same thing, but when she asks for advice, it's much more beneficial to actually take it on board. Rather than shifting blame (which is actually irrelevant anyway) and getting snarky about being a volunteer.

Yes sorry I probably was a bit harsh I just didn't understand why exclusion would be so high up the list of responses, or why you had not considered if the boy might have SN. I also don't like the suggestion that SN of another child causes behaviour problems. I agree, siblings of children with SN are often more mature, more tolerant, and appreciate opportunities more.

I would say try very immediate praise or sanction, so its not delayed until the end of the session and consistency of one leader until his behaviour improves.

I don't think you can have one behaviour system tbh, that would discriminate against disabled children wouldn't it? My disabled child would never be allowed to join anything if that was the case.

Do you know anything about the life at home? Does this boy get a good nights sleep or does his disabled sibling keep the house awake all night? There could be lots of reasons for this behaviour.

If this child actually might have SN himself then the council usually have inclusion officers or similar who will come and support to stop exclusion.

My non SN boys go to a lovely young carers / sibling group and there are about 30 siblings of disabled children who go and all are well behaved so I don't recognise just being a sibling as a risk factor for behavioural problems its more likely he has mild SN himself e.g. ADHD etc

zzzzz - yep, that's pretty much what I got out of it as well.

I think the fact that the sibling has SN is definitely inconsequential here as in actual fact that would probably mean that the parents like many of us have had to read various parenting books on dealing with SN so we in fact try to become better more forward thinking parents as we need to be ready with any scenario.
This little boy sounds a lot like my SN daughter who is 5 and attends Rainbows. She has had very extreme behaviour issues she has ADHD and dyspraxia the thing that caused her behaviour to escalate and become violent was reward systems. Give her a sticker on her reward chart for good behaviour she would forget quickly what it was she had got it for. Take a sticker away or put her in time out she would go completely crazy kicking screaming etc unable to moderate her behaviour this could go on for quite a while and again at the end of it all she would not recall what it was all about.

OP I am sorry you have decided to abandon your post there is some excellent advice on offer here you may post somewhere else that is your decision but you will not get the experience that we all have.

Hi, I just wanted to come back and share the information on a Organisation who has been very helpful to me in researching this:
www.sibs.org.uk/

Thank you also to the several mums who have PMed me to share with me their own experiences with siblings. It is much appreciated and I will be taking on board the suggestions that you and Sibs have made.