God TA again.....!

[appropriatelyemployed]

I am so sorry guys. I haven't had time to post here much with the new job and when I do, I am always moaning rather than supporting.

Things are deteriorating with the TA. I was working in London today and came home to hear DH say that TA had said DS had 'hit her'. He says she snatched a book off him and he pushed her away.

I am constantly confronted by niggling issues about how she can't get him to do 'x,y or z' and there is no solution offered. She even says she doesn't know what to do, but then I offer suggestions and she ignores me.

School have contacted me to confirm they are arranging one of DS's quarterly multi-agency meetings. I got this put in the statement. Yet, presently, they have no lap top skills, no OT, no working memory problem and NO ONE HAS ANY ASD TRAINING!!!!!!!! Again......

I feel DS hates his TA again now. She says things like 'I was just telling him how to eat properly and he got angry'. DS is a very messy eater but why would you have this battle?

Or, 'I told him because he wouldn't do PE, he had lost his computer time so he got annoyed'.

Seriously, I'm not being precious am I? This is a crap way to deal with a child with ASD. I've already reported to school about her calling him 'lazy' 'rude' or naughty'. Of course, she denied this but DS doesn't lie.

I'm also really annoyed that she suggested having an IEP target of making him 'respond appropriately to other children's mistakes' because she got annoyed when he laughed. I challenged this as (a) not measurable and (b) not so much of an issue you would want an IEP target for it. Head agreed.

S&LT goes in and she rings me afterwards to say TA wants target of 'responding appropriately to other children'.....

Email says TA will be at multi-disciplinary meeting too. I just feel that since the half-cocked ABA intervention, things have changed and she now just things he is a naughty boy who needs to be taught how to do things properly.

No you are not being precious and if you were why not? Our children need all the back up they can get from what I have read here most days.

As for the TA suggesting "responding to other children" or even about childrens "mistakes" its rediculous.

Maybe walk in and suggest a social skills group work? and also suggest the TA goes on a few social skills courses if she likes using the "lazy" "naughty" words to an ASD child

I can understand a teacher pointing out in a sentence ie. "DS that was quite rude what we should say is blah blah" in a calm tone. But not the other two words.

I would insist on training before they point a finger at your DS. Politely and firmly say that you can offer advice that works at home but the staff need to have the training to understand the implimentations of it.

ohhhh they dont have make you

TBH she doesn't sound like she is enjoying it anymore than your DS. Any chance of saying that they just don't seem to be a good fit and could they swap for someone else.
I was just saying today how defensive everyone in education is and how in other fields people could admit things were not working or gelling without a blame culture but everyone in SEN seem hung up on the blame culture which doesn't help your DS
School did ask ABA what would they make DS do if he hit a child etc and the ABA supervisor said she would not punish DS but she might get him to say sorry not because DS would understand that but because sometimes it was important for the other children to have that recognition.
So I can see that it might be ok to get your DS to say sorry, but that needs to come with an understanding that he may not be sorry, may not understand why he should be sorry etc - thats why the target is rubbish if he does not have the insight and understanding he would need to gain that first. Its not a target that benefits him it would be something that would be for the benefit of others.
So you could say if DS is rude I agree you can ask him to say sorry for the benefit of the other child, but that his level of understanding / insight would need to progress before that would be an appropriate target for him - you could suggest a target for her to teach him these social skills and when she has demonstrated he understands then you could add in a target of him responding appropriately
Appropriate has to be appropriate for his level of understanding - not appropriate by her standards - because if his social skills / understanding were typical he would not have a dx of ASD would he?

Agnes............you put it so much more eloquently :)

Is there Autism outreach? I am just wondering if there is anyone more acceptably qualified that could tell the TA that she is not behaving appropriately towards your DS. Also here the Outreach also do training for the teachers and TA's - some of it based at the SS for autism and some where they go in and do whole school training.
If the ASD training is in the statement can you try to get the LEA to enforce it? Or have you already been down that route (- sorry if you had I don't always keep up with everyone's child and get the detail to match the person).
Do the school get the local Autistic society training details? If not can you forward any to them with the suggestion that the staff attend. I get them sent by our SENCO as I don't get them directly for some reason.

I would be with the school and would be telling them so. I would be telling them each time there was an incident in writing what DS had reported had happend and that if this is correct it is clearly not an appropriate way to respond/ talk to him because of XYZ. I would copy the SENCO and send to the head ( or are you one of the schools where they are one and the same thing).

At this point I might also consider copying the LEA as they would soon get fed up of investigating every complaint.

Is that OTT do you think?

As Agnes said - can't the school change the TA to one that would be better for your ds?
My ds's TA has recently been changed and it has made a world of difference. She is older, has kids of her own and is firm but fair. Ds was upset to start with but within a day was saying that it was for the best and that the new TA was much better! His behaviour has greatly improved and he says it's because the new TA doesn't report every little thing like he felt the previous one did and also is a lot calmer. He said the other one was on edge all the time expecting an 'incident' to happen - hardly helpful for a child with extreme anxiety issues.

Feel for you.

Ds's TA is sarcastic to him.

He comes home and says 'why does mrs xxx say 'oh look, you've done a lot of work' when I haven't done any?'

I get the impression that she hates him.

Thanks I very much appreciate your advice. I have been down the failing to arrange provision, complaint to LA, complaint to LGO and move schools route before!

This school seemed much better and I believe it is - or at least the head is. But he has left this to people who don't understand ASD.

It is a really small school - 90 kids in a primary school. There is no chance of swapping TAs.

This TA was a teacher too before she became DS's TA and I think this is part of the problem. She expects compliance and for her voice to be respected.

I do respect her but I also know she has no ASD training and we are having one long succession of conflicts because of it. It feels like she is picking silly little fights. It feels like she doesn't actually like him very much any more.

If she does not like working with him to his benefit, she has no business working with him. I'd push for a change in TA, personally. It's not helping him to be in an ongoing conflict like this when he's supposed to focused on learning. It's distracting and demeaning for him to have to put up with IMO.

I think it's totally unfair to ask someone who has had no ASD specific training to support an ASD child in an educational environment, yet it happens all the time. It's unfair to both child & adult as ASD is such a complex condition, especially for a layman.

WE all learnt the hard way that normal behavioral management techniques are as much use as a chocolate tea cup, this TA hasn't grasped the fundamentals of what "triad of impairments" means. This means you are all frustrated & upset. More importantly - without training she's gonna be unable to help your DS "access the National Curriculum". Her PGCE won't have covered it.

ABA won't make ANY sense to her whatsoever as she currently doesn't have the foundational knowledge this pedagogy is built on.

At the meeting fight hard for her (or whoever is to be DS's TA in September) to have ASD training - hopefully that's in your statement.

My guess is that she took the TA job thinking it would be a cushy lil number after teaching classes of 30+ NT children. She's not yet grasped that what we all know - one ASD kid = at least 5 times the mental effort of one NT chid lol! She's been set up to fail without training(& prob in doing so get the ABA funding dismissed by the LA long term). She may just be beginning to be aware & so resentful of this.

Thanks. Of course, it won't be accepted that she is being unhelpful. She will always say she said things nicely or kindly and that he just blew up.

Yet, he then says 'she snatched my book' or 'she took away my computer time' or she called me naughty.

I know I am not being precious when I say he doesn't lie as he really doesn't. Never has. It gets him in plenty of trouble.

I will see what head says but he has shown less willingness to engage of late.

I see no prospect of his TA being changed at all. She was specifically recruited, is over qualified and is going nowhere.

Push, push & push some more for her to receive training in ASD. Make it clear in the meeting it is for HER benefit.

Thanks. I will. You are right. Without training, there is no hope!

Thanks. I have emailed head. He has lots of new commitments including with other schools at the moment and has said he would organise training.

But DS has been here nearly 6 months now and I think it was just assumed that, because this TA is a teacher, she wouldn't need training. She said she left teaching so she would have more time with her kids which may be true but she seems to lack even basic skills to encourage a child to do what she wants.

I appreciate though that is difficult with a child with ASD. All the more reason to train her.

I don't mind people complaining about behaviour if we are talking on equal terms and if I am confident that she understands the inconsistencies/difficulties of the ASD world. But she doesn't so his refusals or non-compliance are completely misunderstood.

It's a real shame as it started off so well and he is actually enjoying his learning at this school too.

I think you need to get to a place where you trust her and as she hasn't managed to develop a good relationship with your ds that is obviously very difficult. If she can develop a good relationship she will then know when he is playing her up and when she needs to make more adaptations for his ASD. I say this as dd ASD in mainstream has a TA who understands her very well and knows when dd is being stubborn and trying to work avoid and when she is overloaded and needs a run around the field or some quiet time or some tickling games or whatever. Consequently I trust her judgement and when she tells me dd has been difficult I can take that on board and accept it. That said, she also understands that when something has happened it is dealt with, and we move on. It is never a source of upset or anger for TA and she still appears to like and care about dd after the incident. Obviously training might her help your ds TA to have more understanding of your ds autism and therefore to be more compassionate and understanding when he isn't compliant. however it may well be she just isn't right for him. is there any mileage in suggesting that he has a different TA with the excuse that 'it would be good for him to get used to working with different adults' and that this will help when TA is sick or unavailable. You might then be able to see if another TA could manage him better? If all else fails you might have to insist that this TA supports someone else or another class and that someone else supports your ds. I work in education and it should be possible to swap things round for the next school year on the grounds that TA and child just haven't gelled. This happens pretty frequently and where I work some TA's will go to head and say 'I'm not coping well with this dc ' or 'I think someone else might have more success with this dc'. It doesn't have to be about failure just an acceptance that children respond differently to different people and different styles of intervention. I feel for you as the TA is the most important element of any mainstream placement IME.

Thanks. I also really feel the 'being difficult' is very much ASD related too. He often needs a reason to do things others want him to.

He actually is very straight and not at all malicious. He just doesn't see things in the same way.

So work avoidance, being difficult is all part of it. Why should he work? Why does he need to go to school etc?

His brother may not want to read his school book when he gets home but he will as he knows that is what is expected and just complies socially etc. DS can have real problems understanding why he should do what is expected if it is not what he wants so it can end up in a running battle.

To counter this, you need very clear systems so he knows if he does x, then he gets y etc.

This is just completely lacking so there is constant tension which the TA seems to manage by conflict - 'don't do this' or 'you're rude' etc etc

Oh I agree that the being difficult is because my dd doesn't see why she should comply with requests which are unimportant to her and this is part of her ASD. The only way we have found to deal with this is by having clear rules and rewards for completing tasks. She uses a timer and has to work for ten minutes or sometimes less depending on task, her mood etc then can choose a reward from her choice board. This generally works well but sometimes she is less compliant but the TA works through it perhaps her writing is more scruffy but she still completes task and gets reward. We sometimes find she tries to pinch or bite if she really doesn't want to comply. She still has to complete task. I guess what I'm trying to say is that because your ds's TA doesn't 'get' him and reading through your posts you feel she doesn't 'like' him, this makes it impossible for you to trust her to make that judgement call on when he must work, sit on carpet or whatever. DD gives her TA loads of hugs and clearly adores her. She is also making progress. I do have concerns about her SALT and her schooling but feel they are very on top of managing her behaviour. It seems clear that managing and understanding your ds behaviour is what the TA is struggling with. I think I remember another post where she dropped the sitting for X minutes then break idea. Clearly TA needs to adopt agreed strategy and stick to it. This is obviously easier said than done.

I went on an ASD training course. It was for parents and teachers of reception children that are expected the following year. DS' school didn't turn up (because they'd done it before ) so we were put in a group of teachers from another school.

The course was extremely basic, full of cliches and a bit of LA propaganda, focussing mostly on 'managing' the child than educating them. But that wasn't shocking. What was, was the teachers undying gratefulness for their attendance and information.

I was at how much they enthused they had learned, and tbh it was only really about children with ASD being visual learners and needing help at transition. Break time support was not flagged as this was advised as time when a TA would get in the way of natural social skill develoPment .

But that just shows a complete lack of understanding of ASD. I constantly find myself giving a reason for everything. There will be arguments when DS does not want to comply and he would make a good lawyer trying to find the holes in everything, but we do have to explain. It is the same in school. The TA explains why he must do things the school way.

I can't believe that something this fundemantal is being overlooked. It clearly shows how much she needs some training.

Please push for school training and a change of TA due to "personality clash" or some such.

I suppose another thought was that your ds would be more willing to work or comply if he could see that he and TA also have fun. DD's TA is very firm with her and there are undoubtedly times when she is less than happy with the tA during the day but this is balanced by fact that TA plays with her and has fun with her as well. Managing your ds's non compliance successfully will probably mean that there are times when he is not happy with the TA so his annoyance with her will not always mean that she has done the wrong thing. I know that your ds' s TA is not managing him successfully and I can see why you are frustrated and unhappy, but try not to see every incident as evidence of her crappy approach or this will undoubtedly make her more defensive. I think that if you are stuck with this TA then this is particularly important. If you think you can get rid of her then go for it!

Hi there you!!
The fact that she hasn't had any ASD training is a major issue - you wouldn't go to your GP for medical advise if he was only partly trained in the things that interested him. Why is it that its not legal to refuse goods and services to a disabled person - unless its do with education?
AHHH it makes me so cross! I know that you had such great hopes for this school, you must be feeling awful. The thing is when a child [and that's any child] knows or feels that someone doesn't like or understand them it has a direct impact on every time they meet, and on everything they do. A TA is supposed to be there to understand and support not just for the academic side.

This is EXACTLY why people fight for ABA programmes. The quality/training of the TA is fundamental!

Sorry Head is getting fed up. It is hard not to feel like YOU are causing his grief, but you have to remember it ISN'T you. You're the one complaining - yes, but you're not the one doing what you are complaining about.

I hope you can get that across to him.

Can you say I don't think she likes / enjoys DS?
Working 1:1 with a child who sees the world very differently does not have to be a criticism unless they choose to take it that way.

ABA staff would always start out by pairing themselves with DS favourite fun activities so he builds a positive relationship with them and becomes more social with them and then they can use that as a platform. For DS being 5 this involves silly games and songs, tickles, chase etc

Perhaps the TA needs to ditch the work for while and just have learn to have fun with your DS. If she says she can't think of anything that they would find fun to do together then its pretty obvious she is never going to enjoy working with him. She may be on a short term contract - do they have to renew this or can they look for someone else. There is a reasonable chance her contract expires at end of school year and would then have to be renewed

Some people find working with children with asd fascinating and rewarding and others don't.

Do you have a home school book? If the TA were to write things down then this may give you more evidence of her unhelpful attitude and strategies. This could be shown to the HT or other staff. You could write down strategies and then the TA can't argue that she doesn't know what to do. It may not be much help in improving things in school but it may help you to prove your point.