SATS and a tribunal............

[nickminiink]

Hi, as mentioned in previous threads, our tribunal against the NIL is in approx 4 weeks and my son has just sat his SATS - YR 6. I am told the results would not be made available to us until July, I was hoping to use these results at my tribunal as in the words of my son "I have not done very well", which to be honest based on his year's course work and hours of sitting down with him to revise I kind of knew he would struggle, despite the school saying he is doing well and progressing accordingly to his ability (still don't get that statement as its so open ended, what is his ability, does this mean he will never achieve any qualifications as expected becuase of his ability). So my question is has anyone else managed to get the SAT results earlier and used for a tribunal, is there a legal angle I can go in at or is July fixed and that is that. I really do need these results to show how much he is struggling

Thanks again for your help, be glad when this tribunal is over seems to have taken over my life for the past 18 months

Nick

The school won't get the SATs results until July. I can't remember what date, but it's easy to find.

Results aren't out till 10th July.

media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/k/assessment%20and%20reporting%20arrangements%20key%20stage%202.pdf

Thanks IndigoBell, thats me buggered then as I know based on what my son has told me and the number of questions unanswered he has done pretty poorly in the SATS and this would have reiterated how much he is struggling not only with the work, but with the understanding and comprehension of what he is tasked to do due to his poor working memory.

Thanks again

They will however have the teacher assessment grade by then.

Would you trust that grade? Or do you believe it's inflated?

Indigobell, sorry what do you mean by teacher assessment grade is this his attainment levels or the teachers predicted SAT grade ? as I am not aware of this. If I was honest no I would't trust them as in my son's case they would inflate as they all predict good things for him, when in reality he struggled massively with the SATs. He leaves in July so no skin of their noses not their problem anymore to inflate as it is only a prediction and could blame nerves for poor perfomance.
Thanks

Teacher assessment is what grade the teacher thinks he is.

It would be possible to do much better in class than in test conditions.

If he has sat his SATS than that means he's probably working at a level 3 or above. Kids who are doing really badly academically (ie level 2 or below) at school shouldn't even sit SATs.

Hi, when you mean levels do you mean his attainment levels ie 2a, 3b etc etc. Below are his current levels, struggles with literacy, teachers never discussed if he should or should not sit the SATS. So do I just ask the teacher her assessment grade for the SATS ?

Reading :
Yr2 : 2c
Yr3 : 2c
Yr4 : 2b
Yr5 : 2a

Writing :
Yr2 : 1c
Yr3 : 1b
Yr4 : 2c
Yr5 : 2a

Maths :
Yr2 : 1c
Yr3 : 1a
Yr4 : 2c
Yr5 : 3b

Science :
Yr2 : 2c
Yr3 : 2b
Yr4 : 3c
Yr5 : 3a

Latest reading age : 9yrs and 9 months (taken 15/07/2011)
Latest Spelling age : 7yrs 7 months (taken 15/07/2011)

Those are the levels I mean.

If he was a 2a last year they probably think he can get a 3 this year.

My DS got level 4's in his yr 6 Sats. They used this as the initial excuse to knock back our request for a statement, as they said he was doing ok.

I quoted the Code of Practice on my input when the school appealed the decision....

7.39 However, academic attainment is not in itself sufficient for LEAs to conclude that a statutory assessment is or is not necessary.

nothinginthefridge, did you get a statement ?

Thanks everyone for your comments.

SENCO hat on. Looking at those levels you're fine - they are really low - I know you shouldn't feel happy about that but do so. He is operating at 2 levels below the average attainment level and that's when the LEA tend to do something. Don't worry about it unduly. I've taught children who come in at 2b and have them up to 3a by the end of year 9 and up to a 4 later on. His literacy levels being weak justifies you completely so don't stress about the SATS - actually I'm quite surprised they put him in for the SATS - those sorts of levels would justify an abstention. Did he get a reader and scribe for maths? To be honest, SATS are shit and don't mean a bloody thing. I've taught kids who have got level 5s who can't write a thing and those with level 3s who are really bright.

I would say you've got a pretty good case and I just don't get why schools are so obstructive about applying for statements. I know it's loads of bloody paperwork but really what is it with them - surely it is in their interest to get more money and support for a child who needs it. What sort of school is he going to in year 7?
Good luck. Remember the stress of tribunal when DS was in year 6. Fortunately for me the EP saw him the day he'd done 3 maths SATS papers and he went absolutely bloody mental in a PE lesson (he did grin at me when he got home - I think he sort of did it on purpose) but she wrote a stonking report and it got us what we wanted.
Good luck.

Nick, did they give him any help in his SATs? A reader or prompter? Or was he just in with everyone else?

nick yes we did get a statement. We were told he would get 11 hours, in the end he got 20 which allowed us to move him to a specialist resource unit.

Hi Nick, The Science and writing tests are marked internally in most schools this year and so the grade should be available earlier than July. The other papers i.e. reading, spelling and Maths are sent away and the grades arrive back in school latish in June. As Indigobell says you could get the teacher assessment for these grades earlier than July. Looking at the grades that you have given from Year 2-5 then the Y6 teacher assessment for reading and writing should not be higher than 3b which is the expected grade for a year 4 pupil so if they inflate them higher than this you could ask for evidence to back it up. If you have any tests from an EP these will help a lot.

As others have said these test results are not an indication of future performance and some children get grades as low as 2 in the SATS and then go on to get grade C at GCSE.

Hi, I know my son is struggling I see it every day I just wish the teachers wiyld see it instead of saying he is doing fine and progressing enough under SA+.
Ellenjaneisnotmyname - No he got no help with his SATS such as a scribe or reader, however he was seperated into another area with 5 others who are special needs but was given no other help. Didn't undersatand why they did this, I suppose so it was less daunting instead of sitting in the main hall with all the other children. I have not been in communication with the school since the tribunal date was set, kind of fell out with them and had enough of their bullshit. He leaves for mainstream secondary soon so thought I would save my energy for the tribunal and hoepfully forming a good relationship with his secondary school.

Inaflap - Thank your comments, it must be just me as I think his attainment levels are low too but the LEA EP and SENCO advises there is nothing to worry about as he is making good progress. This is why I have appealed and going to tribunal. The problem is the EP and head of SENCO are the 2 witness for the LEA and they have never backed my decissions when I asked for their involvement / SA request as we were told by our private SALT that he could be dyslexic, ironic thing is he was DX with dyslexia becuase of our persistence. The LEA EP assessed our son 2 weeks ago and her report will sink our case as amazingly over the last 6 months he has made alot of progress 6th percentile to 34 in some areas. We paid of a private SALT assessment and the LEA SALT report contradicated ours, culdn't afford a private EP assessment but I ma sure it would not have read anything like the one we just received.

Thanks we are going to need luck
Nick

nick you can use the recent LEA EP report to show that the progress on psychological assessment is not matched by progress in standardised tests such as SATs. They can't have it both ways - if his SATs progress is commensurate with ability it stands to reason that an increase in assessed ability (EP report) has to be matched by an equal increase in attainment (SATs).

When levels are dismissed as OK it tends to be the absolute level rather than the rate of progress. Expected progress is 2 sub-levels per year. For reading you have 2 sub-levels in four years - this is inadequate progress. It does not have to be in all subject areas. Do the same thing for the reading and spelling age and focus on the rate of progress.

Thanks KeepOnKeepingOn1, I won't get his SATs results until after the tribunal and if I ask for their predicted grade level, I am sure this would be inflated and no SATs to compare to. I will have to ask for current attainment levels and compare to his YR5 levels.

PipinJo - I agree with the Ind EP report but we just can't afford one, so we had a Ind SALT report which shows he's making no progress / going backwards in some areas.

Thanks
Nick

Thanks PipinJo, I do not know where you live but I bet it is better than here, this country is going to pot, I have lived here all my life and you have fight for everything, NHS, Education, DLA its depressing, rant over :0). No we do not live in London, I will have google but we are not entitled to legal aid so I can't see how we would be entitled for this funding, I am the working man stuck right in the middle where we are entitled to nothing. thanks anyway.

LeonieDelt - Inadequate progress is the only angle I have and I thought I had a good case until this latest EP report, any particular reference to the COP regarding inadequate progress

Thanks

PipinJo - Wow 4 tribunals, this is my first and may be my last as not sure I would survive another one stress levels through the roof and I fear for my sanity. I do your appreciate your advice and I shall look into it, no need to be sorry this is what us parents have to do, nothing is easy.

Thanks again

Nick WRT reading in year 2 your son was one sub-level below expected attainment, in year 3 the gap increased and he was 2.5 sub-levels behind, year 4, 3 levels behind and in year 5 is 4 sub-levels behind. Hence the attainment gap (regression from the mean) has increased year on year.

What are his projected results, even if they are inflated? Remember that expected progress is two sub-levels per year so the most he can be is 3b and even this would be unusual given his previous rate of progress unless it had resulted from a specific intervention like Acceleread.