What about the NT siblings of our children with sn?

[siblingrivalry]

Just wanted to ask really, because I had a real wake up call today. How do you give both/all your children what they need?

The circumstances would make me too identifiable, but there was a 'discussion' with DH's side of the family earlier about dd2 always being second to dd1 (AS) in terms of the attention and time they give her.

To us, it always seems that dd2 is in the background as far as they are concerned.
She is so lovely and very kind-she is 7 now and has never, ever mentioned or complained about all of the attention and time dd1 needs. She has always been really patient with her and understanding. If dd1 is having a meltdown, dd2 will either try to help or will remove herself so she isn't in the middle of it all.

DH and I are only too aware of how hard it can be to live with dd1 at times and we do our very best to give DD2 what she needs and to make sure she knows that dd1 isn't her responsibility.

BUT I think that we might be failing her at times. Because dd1 is having a bad time at the moment, we have been engrossed in her current issues. Today, dd2 got really upset and shouted at dd1 and I felt like it was a lightbulb moment-she's struggling with dd1 too

And I feel guilty, because I didn't see how it was affecting dd2.

DD1 needs to start taking on board the needs of her sister and to realise that she isn't always going to be the focus of our attention. However, her mental health is really fragile and I'm scared of making her worse.

Don't know what the hell to do? I would appreciate any ideas or tips. TIA .

It is often tough on the siblings. They have to grow up much quicker than their peers - which in some ways can be good, whilst at the same time robbing them of their childhood.
Our situation is slightly different to yours in that DD is so severely disabled that we have various types of respite which means we have always been able to give time to our DS and do 1-1 activities and holidays with him when his sister is not there. We have often felt he gets more attention than his friends in many ways.
In some areas they run Siblings Groups where youngsters can get together and have fun with other children who are in the same situation. They are often billed as Young Carers groups which makes many people think they are only for youngsters who help care for a disabled parent - but that is not the case. Red Cross run these groups in some areas, others are run by different organisations. So maybe finding one of these groups for your DD2 might give her the chance to meet others who understand what she goes through but also have trips out and fun appropriate to her age. I appreciate that this doesn't mean getting more attention from you, but may go some way to fill a gap.
There is also a national sibling support website which may be of help to you:

www.sibs.org.uk/

I know how you feel for i have come across the same problem, I have DS1 with ODD and CD who feels that he is pushed out due to DD1 with SLI and needs more care than him, then i have DS2 and DD2 who are both a lot younger, we find it physically impossible to spend 1-1 time with DS1 without the other 3, and then same again for DD1 with out the other 3 again, and then the fact we have no time to spend with the 2 little ones due to the other 2, we have no family or friends that will have any of them so we dont get any time to ourselves either, plus we dont get any support from any services either, some days i wish i could do more but i cant.

I have NT dd aged 6 and ds asd/ld aged 4. A lot of the time we ds sets the pace - days out are cut short, plans changed etc because he can't cope. We try to make sure we have times when dd comes first and she has sleepovers with the in laws where she is center of attention (they never have DS - they don't "get it" and can't cope).
She also has 1on1 time with each parent, watching TV playing games etc. My parents live 3 mins walk away and we have great support from them - they understand how to deal with ds and both children spend time there,usually one at a time, it's their second home! DD keeps all her craft things there and enjoys being able to do things at Grans that she doesn't do at home - glue / glitter / small beads etc are not compatible with ds!!!
I appreciate we are very lucky to have support so that we can spend time with dd - last year we took her to a theme park for her birthday and made the trip all about her choices, ds went to stay with my mum.
We offered the same deal this year but dd wants ds to come along too this time, she has realised we will get an exit pass at Legoland if ds is with us!!!

Mmmmm yes I worry about this too. Ds 15 Aspergers/ hfa , Dd 9 NT. I went on a NAS course ...I think they run them quite regularly. 'Supporting the siblings of your child with an asd '... I think it was called. It was quite useful... Lots of tips.. Some useful ....so not so. There might be one near you?
Also Crossroads and Camhs do outings and sessions for siblings... Might be worth a call?... Or Crossroads also take ds off sometimes too .

Thanks to you all for your posts.

It seems that it's a common problem and I'm sorry so many other people have these issues. There are similar concerns and difficulties and no easy answer, is there?

DD1 and needs set the pace here too-sometimes outings have been cut short
or we have avoided certain events altogether. As dd2 gets older, she will become more aware of these situations, so I think dh and I will need to give things a bit more thought (if that's possible!)

I will look into the links, thank you. I think the NAS course could be especially useful, I might email them to see what they say.

I'm just so low about it all tonight- need to find some positivity. At times, it seems that the problems thrown at us just never let up

It's not the same as parent attention but when doing ABA with DS I realised that it was cheaper to do it myself and hire a young girl to play with dd, than hire an ABA tutor for DS.

So Once a week I had a young trainee teacher come with all kinds of craft activities and just do quality 1:1 stuff with her.

I make sure that ds2 and ds3 have their own 'things'. So ds2 for example is very into the theatre. He has sometimes managed to land himself professional roles and then of course everything revolves around him for a bit as he has to be at the theatre at a certain time etc etc. Actually he only ended up doing theatre stuff because we signed him up for Stagecoach when he was 4 so that he would have his own time and everything wasn't revolving around ds1.DS3 goes horse riding when ds1 is at respite, and also has violin lessons.

They both do stuff in school - but that is out of school stuff when we have to think about them and organise things around them iykwim.

We find ourselves splitting up to try to give the girls the time they need.

Dd2 is 16 and NT, Dd3 is 9 and has ASD.

Dd2 gets very frustrated with Dd3's pedantic ways and inflexibility.

Dd3 gets frustrated when Dd2 doesnt care about things being right.

There have been many times when Dd3 hasnt coped with situations and it has spoiled things for Dd2.

Just occasionally we see that they can do something together and appreciate each other. We had one of those days today when the both went kayaking with a coach along the canal. It was lovely to see them doing something together.

We do a similar thing to Jimjams - try to make sure DS1 has his own stuff to do - drama, swimmimg, caving - and also that he gets a chance to have friends round whenever possible. Like many of the siblings in this thread, he is amazing with DS2 - very 'in tune' with him, helps him do things, plays endless games of tickling - though very occasionally he gets down about not having a brother he can play with on his level (they are only 16 months apart in age but DS2 plays at the level of a 2-3 year old). And he got very annoyed with him tonight when he was being noisy during the BGT final .

Dd still goes to a childminder because it gives her emotional support, and lets her spend time being a bit pampered in a nice, ordinary, family home.

She needs somewhere apart from school where everything isn't about ds1, so this works for her although after school club would be cheaper and more convenient for me!

I have ds 24, ds 23,dd 18, ds17 ASD and dd 9 ASD.

To be honest the oldest three have been very neglected in terms of time and attention and it seems to be a fluke that they have turned out to be exceptionally good kids regardless. They are incredibly kind, patient, tolerant, resourceful and independent probably because they never had a choice not to be. They aren't in the least bit resentful and appreciate that they are the fortunate ones who have far more life choices than their youngest siblings. The two youngest adore them particularly ds 2 who is absolutely brilliant with them.

It's easy now the oldest three are adults, when they were younger we'd split them between us so 1 would get ds3 and the other would get the others. I encouraged them to have hobbies and interests out of the house. They did lots of after school and weekend activities and ds went to different schools as does dd so their school life was never impacted upon as they would have felt responsible for ds's well being.

It's only now that I feel like I'm getting any sort of motherly relationship with the oldest three mainly because they don't need me and I can give them time individually out of the house so we go out for drinks and meals and cinema and shopping now when it was impossible before.

I feel very lucky tbh.

Yes we do the splitting as well. One has ds1, the other has ds2 and ds3.

Respite helps as well.

Thanks everyone, for taking the time to reply.

Those of you with older children have given me hope that it can be okay for an NT sibling, and that one day I may be able to do have real time with dd2

I think I will follow your leads and schedule more time apart for them- it's a nightmare when dd2 wants friends over because dd1 gets stressed and starts laying down load of rules etc. That ends up with dd2 worrying and so on.

However, about a year ago I decided it just wasn't fair on dd2 and we regularly have her best friend over. It helps that she's a quiet, well behaved little girl who has lovely manners.
DD1 still goes out with dh, though, while the play date happens.

I will also try to encourage dd1 to do a little bit more out of the house. She currently has one activity after school and is in an after school club one night a week.
I think I'm guilty of under estimating how much dd2 needs to get time away from dd1- mostly because of how controlling and anxious dd1 can be.

Thanks again.