So disappointed with DS's TA and ABA ....

[appropriatelyemployed]

DS started a new school this year.

Very supportive head. Very involved. Great.

Recruited a TA who is a qualified teacher. Great.

She was very kindly and gentle and supportive and DS settled in really well. Great.

I instructed an ABA consultant to support DS's communication skills as we weren't getting much in terms of progress with a standard S&LT intervention.

I told her DS was fussing about it never being clear when he could take a break and I suggested she may want to look at that too.

Some of you may remember I posted about this ABA consultant going in to school and then reporting that DS was walking out of class and that the TA complained this had been going on for a while. In fact, it looked like she had used the session (which I was paying for) to unload about him.

She even mentioned DS had ripped up his book on one occasion. She never thought to mention this to me or the head and I was really annoyed to hear this second hand through the ABA consultant. DS says he asked her to promise not to tell me. I suspect she thought she was doing this for the best

Anyway, ABA intervention then ends up being about him walking out of the classroom. I'm a bit annoyed by this as if I'd known, I'd have asked him to stop. When I found out, I asked him to stop and he did.

Never mind I thought, it's cost +£300 but the TA must now feel a bit more secure with the ABA plan which is two pronged - rewards for staying in the class and a clear managed break system reliant on task completion.

DS is on board, head is on board. Off we go.

Two weeks go by. DS is getting stressy about breaks. Saying he's not having them. I go in to today and TA says she's only been implementing the 'walking out' system as it was too disruptive to do the managed break system.

So DS is quite right to say he hasn't had breaks and this TA has just chosen to do the bit of the system that suits her. But they are reliant on each other as if he doesn't get breaks, he is more likely to walk out.

I saw head. He agrees.

Then, I pick DS up today and she moans he is being 'contrary'. He wouldn't do PE. He wouldn't go in the class. I've just started working in London two days a week and I''ve barely seen him since Monday and he was all over the place this morning and I had warned her he was very tired. She was really dismissive.

I then discuss with her and the teacher (who is a NQT) the breaks. They seem to know nothing about my discussion with the head and the TA is very dominant saying 'we are doing the system, he's in the class, what's the problem'. I have to say - no you're not, you're doing a bit of it and that is not what ABA is about.

On top of this, I have just now taken home DS's specialist lap top because I've discovered she wasn't doing his working memory programme or his keyboard training (as requried by his statement) as 'it's always a battle to get him to do it'.

I sympathise, but., seriously, this woman is getting on my nerves now. She has started to be really disparaging about DS - 'sit up, we don't sit like that' etc in front of me. The ABA consultant had told her that yes DS has Hypermobility but he doesn't need to be lying on the table and advised her how to handle it but she is doing it her way

I just feel that the TA can't manage him as she doesn't know what to say when he says he won't do stuff and not she's transferrring her frustration on to him.

I've already been to the head and gently suggested she might need 'support' and training.

The ABA consultant agrees completely that the plan she suggested must be implemented but this is so draining and disappointing.....

definitely sounds like she is struggling and has decided to decide which bits of therapy and provision she will follow. Would there be any mileage in sitting down with her and teacher and trying to explain that it takes time for the strategies to work. It might seem difficult or time consuming or rigid initially but it will work. You could maybe also say that if it doesn't improve situation by an agreed date, consultant will look at it again etc. I know this will be a massive PIA but might help her to get on board again. However I have to say it seems bloody obvious that if agreed strategy is to provide breaks at set intervals it is essential to follow through with this. I know with dd we initially had her working for ten minute timer and then outside for run on field as reward. Even when she looked like she could have sat for a few moments longer we stuck to the plan and after a month or so could move to working for slightly longer. i do think schools struggle sometimes to stick to a strategy when thiings don't work instantly.

A graphic example unfortunately of every plan/statement/programme/intervention being utterly at the mercy of the person employed to implement it.

An LSA has a frightening amount of power and influence.
They can quite literally make or break everything for your child.

Cansu - I agree about schools wanting instant results. I also think that when things are working, they are too quick to pull away the support that got the results in the first place.

I have to be very careful as this is a new school and I have a very good relationship with staff and head after a very poor one at the old school where DS's relationship with his TA was pivotal to our decision to leave.

I have spent an age with the TA going through why he can seem difficult and what she can do. Worryingly, I don't think she is interested and I think she feels it is a slight on her that she can't get him to do stuff, so it is easier to blame him.

Moondog you are so right and that is why all this is so depressing.

I have emailed the head and the consultant is going to reiterate the plan and get the situation reviewed but I feel let down for his sake.

I am so sorry.
The head sounds like a good guy from all you say.
In a case like tihs, you need a tight behavioural contract/checklist for the LSA so she knows exactly what is expected of her. Can your ABA person help with this?

No Cansu, you are absolutely right there. They are too quick to chop and change instead of sticking with one thing and giving it time to work (keeping data on progress to ensure it does.)
Don't be dragged into the 'magician pulling new tricks out of the bag to keep a bored LSA entertained' rigmarole.

I did that for many years.
Now I recommend one clear thing and stick to it.
If people can't or won't adhere to it, I don't work with them or I make some noise (politely) higher up the chain.

Yes, I think he is a good guy. He has paid for ABA for one child with the same consultant we suggested. He is very keen on evidence based interventions and wants to stick to it.

That is what was so startling about the TA deciding for herself that she wouldn't do that bit or would do it the way she wanted.

I think it must be hard to have been a teacher and now be a TA (her choice) but talking to her was like being back at the old school with one of those teachers who nod, and speak softly, but you never resolve anything as they're absolutely determined that they know best and will do what they like.

Thanks zzzzz - you are right. I need to go to bed! I'm sending DH on drop off tomorrow to get a bit of distance. I will let ABA consultant contact head

Hi Approp
This sounds like a bit of a rollercoaster for you but isn't it always? I find it helps me when I can write down what I think is happening in simple steps - so in your case it seems to me that:

• ABA consultant is giving advice that you feel is valuable and is making a difference
• advice is not being followed by school
• you are not able to ensure that advice is being followed
• can you direct/pay the ABA consultant to ensure advice is followed by school and/or identify barriers to its implementation ?
• if this can't be done, its back to trying to achieve a realistic aim I think

Oh FFS AE - I was really hoping you were getting somewhere.

I don't know hat to say except 'yes, bin there' or even 'still friggin there'.

I don't know why it is so difficult to implement such straightforward strategies but it appears that it is. Could it just be the culture where outside experts are resented in favour of 'professional opinion' even if the opposing sides are ABA Consultant vs TA. Has the HT just gone along with your requests for getting recommended strategies but is not prepared to monitor/manage them?

I woukd be concerned though, because far worse than no ABA is bad ABA which is what your poor Ds I getting. Grrrrrrrrr.

To be benevolent, I think HT might be trying a bit of 'light touch' regulation as he didn't seem to know what was going on with the keyboard sessions etc.

He was absolutely adamant to me this morning that it must be done as the consultant said it needed to be done even though I'd given him an 'out' on it by saying I was happy to discuss any changes/problems.

Perhaps hiring a teacher as a TA was not such a good idea, particularly if she is used to working in an environment where you take experts' opinions with a pinch of salt.

School have been great so far and very welcoming to outsiders and the head was really keen on the ABA.

Something is going on but I suspect it is being driven by the TA's lack of understanding of ASD and ABA and her own feeling of inadequacy.

Sorry AE
Its rubbish isn't it
We at least have ABA tutors in school but getting the teacher to 'get it' is tough, been so defensive, taken months to get her to do very basic things like give an instruction using 5 words not 15, finally making some progress and the year is nearly over!
I think they find it hard to understand its not about them.
The ABA staff get monitored and supervised and trained and overlap when they have a free session to watch someone else do ABA - giving and receiving feedback is part of the job, its understood thats how you get better at it.
Yet dare to suggest a school teacher be subject to some form of oversight and they take it as a personal insult.
Personally I found doing ABA myself tough. Being consistent is not my strong point. Really you need ongoing agreement to the consultant going in and picking up where they have slipped into bad habits and putting them back on track. And for them not to see that as a criticism but understand that it is part of trying to do a tough isolated role better. But I would say letting things slip is an inevitable part of ABA and is why you need someone to watch you do it and point it out. Even experienced ABA staff who see themselves on video cringe at things they spot themselves doing.
She also needs to understand that putting in a new system may be more work in the short term but bring rewards in the long term.
And too disruptive to what? If she is only working with your DS why is it disruptive to anyone else when he has a break?
There are TAs out there who are desperate for someone to advise and guide them, she needs to put your DS first.

Thanks Agnes, that is really helpful.

I think she feels that having him in the class all the time is a victory for her. And it is good for him too, don't get me wrong, but not if it's done because she's letting him down by not sticking to a very clear plan regarding breaks.

I think she feels it is disruptive to him by letting him take breaks when he is part of the lesson but the breaks are only supposed to be given once he has finished the task so I'm not sure what the problem is.

I think they do need help on the ground. The ABA consultant has said she could send in one of her supervisees - she supervises Masters/PhD students. She originally said she would do it herself but I think she is recognising this needs more input.

I think that is the way to go.

I can't think of a more dangerous combination than a teacher who used to be a TA.
What you want is people who will follow instructions to the letter. That doesn't mean getting a robot. Asking questions and giving opinions is a great thing. However, somoeone who picks and chooses is lethal and Star is absolutely right. ABA is so powerful that doing it badly can be very damaging.

The best TAs I work with (broadly speaking) are often very young and inexperienced (great as no agenda at all) or older and quite shy. One of the msot talented ones I know is so modest and self effacing,blushes at the drop of a hat. But she is brilliant, dazzlingly brilliant and the changes she has made to the life of the child she supports are beyond belief.

I'm thinking (along with, er someone else) that having a qualified teacher as a TA is not a great idea - sounds like she t=hinks she is in charge and it is her decision what to do.

I think you are right and I am just realising that this constant source of tension is because she is a teacher and used to doing things her way and not used to being told what to do.

I think it is also more embarrassing for her if he walks out as she clearly feels it undermines her 'authority' as a teacher, whereas a TA would not have this baggage necessarily.

That is a problem for the head to sort out. The ABA therapist has now sent across an email emphasising the importance of both elements of the programme being done together, and she will send in someone she is supervising to work on this.

But it just leaves you disappointed. I was in school doing a trip with DS2 yesterday and saw DS1 - he looked at me and said 'I'm having a terrible day'. He was working outside the class with the TA and she was reprimanding him about lying on the table and he looked resentful and tired.

I spoke to the head on the way out and he said he would check it all out at lunchtime.

I don't think he did and that afternoon we got all the problems with walking out and not doing PE. So I felt really frustrated because I knew something like that was going to happen and I had alerted them.

Yet all I got was he was being 'contrary'. But she's not even tried to encourage/motivate him to be involved, she just told him off.

Hi appropriatelyemployed - listen what I would do is request a meeting in writing with your HT, TA, T, ABA, SENCO and anyone else involved. If you request this in writing they need to oblige. Write down all your concerns on paper and copy it prior to the meeting or at the meeting. This way the HT, TA etc all hear what is said at the same time and there is no way for this TA to escape!!!. This is what I have done in the past - trust me it works a treat!!!

I really dislike this TA because when you work with children you need to really love children if you don't YOURE IN THE WRONG JOB!!! - You need to understand that all children are different and learn in different ways. You need to commit yourself 100% to helping this child but also recognising that the whole family needs help and seeing the 'whole picture'. You need to take on board the parents views and do your utmost to help lessen their stress. Being a TA to me means that once your job is done you can look back and say "Well I did EVERYTHING I could and no-one could have done better!".

Also the language this TA is using is seriously concerning me - instead of saying "No - don't do this or don't do that" - How negative is this to a child? This indicates to a child that they are failing - she should be modelling behaviour ie., "What I would do is ????" then "Well done - lets choose a reward!". Has this TA even talked to your DS about what he would like as a reward? Favourite cartoon characters as stickers?, made into certificates?, daily chart where he takes his own control and uses a stamp to get to play time, lunch time, home time etc?. This TA clearly is in it for a job not for genuinely helping children and should never be used as a TA for a child with additional needs. My advice would be ORGANISE the meeting.

emerald8 - thanks that is good advice.

I have already burnt my bridges at one school so I do have to tread carefully here, especially as, for the moment, I do have the head on side.

I am concerned about the negativity of the language and that she has misinterpreted the things the ABA consultant has said about changing behaviour into permission to 'nag' at him.

For example, the ABA therapist showed her how she could manage his sitting (he is hypermobile and flops alot but there is an element of learned behaviour about this - if I lie with my head on my desk, people leave me alone. But he will also do this when embarrassed or distressed.

But the advice the ABA therapist gave was very clear - this is how I would like you to sit, could you sit like this for one minute, then I will let you sit how you want for a minute. She used a card system.

That has translated itself (or been translated) into 'sit up, we don't sit like that'.

Also, on Wednesday he told me he'd bee pushed in the playground and he was upset. I asked if he told his TA, he said yes. So we spoke about it with her and she said 'you must come and tell me' and he said 'I did but you said 'just forget about it''

I think any meeting with her will end up as a confrontation!! I am going to see if the ABA therapist will go in there and help more by setting out clear guidance which will be recordable.

AE You can't give up of course, but once again it might be helpful that it isn't just you. You haven't been 'unlucky'. Things are just so ingrained and rigid in education and teaching staff are just SO very defensive. Often with good reason as every second term they get told to do things differently/better and are blamed for all of society's ills, are subjected to observations and scrutiny regularly.

I think a lot of them just go into themselves and train themselves to have a hard and rigid inner confidence that they allow no-one to penetrate and convince themselves that no-one else knows as much as them and that they are the 'professional' and by default 'expert'.

I think you are right. It is out of step with the head's thinking though. He is really very different, he welcomes you in, lets you be involved, takes your opinions seriously.

I think she is not used to this openness and comes from a background where teachers know best.

Oh, AE, how irritating and frustrating!

I think, a lot of the time, 'people' (ie your TA, potentially) see ABA as 'giving in' and losing control of a situation. it si often as much about modifying one's own behaviour/thoughts/language/rewards as it is about shaping the child's.

imo, ABA done well is a collaboration between the child and the tutor. this can be incredibly hard to explain to someone - when dd1 was in an unenlightened placement, I often found myself saying things like 'well, if you meet her halfway, you'd be surprised by how eager she is to take up the challenge, and then go on to do exactly what you asked in the first place. she just needs ot see that you are willing to help her too' - and this was all too often misinterpreted as 'hmm, mum says we shoudl give in' which is NOT what is is about - as you know fromt he sitting example, you place a (reasonable, adjusted for the child) demand, and when that is met, then the child gets the reward (whether that is sitting the way he wants to for X amount of time, or a token system for something else or whatever) - but it seems as though all the TA has taken on board is 'I see, he doesn't need to sit like that, he's just trying to manipulate the situation. well, I'll soon see to that'.

I sympathise, I really do. I banged my head against the wall for years when I was met with patronising smiles and 'well, we don't like to give all the control to the child' and similar statements.

Well if the head is as you say then you've almost got a more difficult journey.

All this is probably easier when everything is crap, but when you really do have hope but know that the pace of change and learning is going to have to be so very slow when your child is running out of time........well I think that is very tough.

Well if the head is as you say then you've almost got a more difficult journey.

All this is probably easier when everything is crap, but when you really do have hope but know that the pace of change and learning is going to have to be so very slow when your child is running out of time........well I think that is very tough.

Thanks guys. "we need TA to feel she has turned this round by doing what she is told..." sums it up.

Silverfrog, you are completely right about the way it is being interpreted. I think it is easier for her to feel that she is not to blame and that she is being given carte blanche to nag at him now

Star, I know what you mean. I am speaking to the ABA consultant on Monday and I will see if we can get the head on board with a plan to assist (and plan out for the TA) what she can and cannot do.