Stressing over fighting LA for SS

[Triggles]

I'm baffled. LA refused to agree to allow DS2 to go to SS that would be great for him.

We met with someone from LA this week and pointed out that literally EVERYONE that works with DS2, as well as his current school and the SS, agree that the SS is the most appropriate place to meet his needs. We gave this information (in the form of letters and reports) to the LA before they refused. We reiterated this in our recent meeting, stating that DS2 simply is not coping and not learning to his potential in MS. We showed them examples. Their response? Let's get the EP back to do another assessment.

They think the EP report is not current enough (was done when DS2 was in reception, he is now in Yr1). It apparently was current enough for them to REFUSE to agree to the SS in the first place!! But now (2-3 weeks later) it's not, now that we're pushing them to change their mind. I've already made it perfectly clear that we WILL take it to tribunal if necessary.

My opinion is that it's just a stall tactic, and they're hoping to get the EP to say that DS2 should be in MS. IIRC, the EP (at the time of the assessment in YrR) did ask us if we would consider SS for DS2, and at the time, we weren't willing to consider it as paed was mid-assessment, and we had no idea what his actual difficulties were. I'd like to think that this means the EP may help our argument, but I'm worried they're going to rubber stamp what the LA wants.

It makes me so angry. They say DS2 is coping in MS when he clearly is not. I was upset last night that I felt physically ill.

How do you get past this anger at this type of thing and move on to productive organisation??

It definitely sounds like they are hoping that 1) you will fold or 2) the EP will agree with them.

I have no idea how you move on TBH as we haven't been at this stage but wanted you to know that i'm thinking of you (actually I was wondering about this actual issue this morning) and here's a . Put Homes under the Hammer on in half an hour and watch it with me. Someone with a sensible response will be along soon I'm sure

I do enjoy Homes under the Hammer. But I need to take DS2 to his RDA session in a few minutes.

I think part of the reason I'm so cross is they seem to think it's okay for DS2 to have to literally struggle all day long in school, wasting energy trying to cope instead of learning, and they say that's "coping." They want to know if he is learning up to his potential. Well OF COURSE he isn't!! That's why we want him to go to the SS!! But then they say that the academic level at MS is more suited to him than the one at SS, however, SS has already stated they can easily meet his academic needs and challenge him.

What is the point of him being at MS school when he is not coping, constantly being taken out of class because he is distressed or overloaded, and often separated from the other children because he cannot cope with a particular activity?? Not to mention the fact that socially he is so very far behind the other children that they are now treating him much differently - so not as a peer, but more like a pet or a baby to be watched. It's frustrating.

Oh triggles. I suspect I will be having this battle in the next year-can't decide who to ask about it first as am scared of getting fobbed off. So can't help practically as not been there yet but absolutely understand your frustration and anger at how they are choosing to interpret things.

I have been told my DD is a "mainstream child" but to me she doesn't seem like any of the other "mainstream children" who go to the school! So upsetting.

Re the getting past the anger thing, I find it is when I am angry I get stuff done if I can focus it. Not sure what this would involve or what the next step is but someone here will have been there fingers crossed for you and your DS.

You don't get past the anger. trust me 3 years on I still HATE the people who told me DS would be fine in mainstream and left him in the gutter to rot. Even though we won and got what we wanted at Tribunal, the sense of injustice and the cruelty - telling me my child was less disabled than he was and giving me hope of an outcome / life that was never achievable - just to save money. Its a f***g disgrace.

But you are right it is not personal, it is just tactics. I have seen numerous minutes of council meetings where they talk about 'intensively gatekeeping' places at SS - I suspect they would like to close them all completely. I know children who are failing really really badly in mainstream and whose TAs go home black and blue, so they are failing not just the children but endangering their own staff as well.

They have no evidence to support what they are doing so you should win in the end. Sadly they seem to think dragging everything out and keeping the child in mainstream / cheapest option as long as possible is the best way - then they dump the child in SS at 11 or at 16 or 19 on their colleagues in social care who complain that the young person has no life skills and is going to have much higher needs than would have been the case had they got early intervention.

What stage are you at? Do you have a final statement? Hav ether said they will not change statement after AR? If not tell them to issue final statement / confirm view so you can appeal and they can get their second EP report while the appeal is pending.

He has had a statement since last year. We requested a change to the SS at his annual review.

I think it comes down to the fact that he tests well and is clever, so they want him in MS. However, he cannot COPE with MS. He is a basket case by the end of school day. He's learning little bits and bobs of things - mostly facts that he can memorise in the brief moments that he can focus - because he has an astounding memory for facts (for everything else, not so much ). But he can't really DO anything with the information at all. It's obvious he is not learning to his potential as he is so unfocused and distracted, much of it due to sensory issues. He can't cope with the larger class size and the way the lessons are taught. The SS environment is geared to what he needs.

They suggested the possibility of a unit attached to a MS that is local, which we'd already told them in the review had been visited and agreed that it was not an appropriate placement there for him due to a number of reasons (and that school also agreed it was not the place for him!).

It was suggested that by wanting him in SS we're limiting his choices for when he's older. Um.. okay... because the fact that he's not learning to anywhere near his potential won't limit his choices as well? The fact that he cannot cope with MS and is started to get frustrated and has been arguing about going to school won't limit his choices in future?

arrrrgggghhhhhhh

When was your AR?
I remember some threads a few months back about LAs taking ages after AR to decide whether to amend or not
I have a feeling IPSEA had something on it being a new tactic to drag things out
I think someone on here decided they would appeal to the tribunal even though they did not have a final decision from the LA - i.e. appeal on basis the LA have not changed the statement after AR

If they are messing you around I would just appeal - it doesn't cost anything and the Tribunal can only send it back as premature.

Tribunal Guide does say you should wait for final written decision but if they are delaying giving you a final decision then it may be worth a shot to say can the Tribunal take the appeal even without a final decision giving the LA are unreasonably delaying making a decision?

Thanks. I'll check further into it. The AR was in March IIRC (bit exhausted, stressed, and scattered today).

The LA person asked all sorts of theoretical questions about how the SS would handle certain situations (not really sure how they thought WE would know that offhand!!) and they seemed to play a guilt card that we were limiting his future/choices with this option, which I didn't really appreciate. Do they think we come to this decision lightly???

Oh yes the guilt card.
We had the scaremongering card:
'why would you want to send your DS there he's not that severe, none of the children there can talk you know'

Our LA are currently going round justifying funding no out of area / residential placements because 'it is really awful for these children to be separated from their families'. Bad enough for families to come to terms with residential without the so called professionals accusing them of neglect and emotional damage!

They won't even fund a school other than the nearest school because children would be ripped out of their local community and lose all their friends. The fact they may have no friends and the local community may have shunned them being irrelevant.

I'm prowling through the IPSEA site... but I fail to see the link on the website to "If your LA is being incredibly stupid and just won't use common sense"....

Have I missed it?

At least you still have your humour!

It's about all I've still got! Sanity is long gone!!

Just humour, chocolate, and wine left!

Come to think of it, I imagine I still have the humour BECAUSE I still have the chocolate and the wine.

Have some more . Can't help with the chocolate sorry

our AR was at the beginning of December - we have only just had the amended statement through . thankfully no dispute over placement, but it does make me wonder what took all the time - it's jsut an update of her needs (her last statement still carried (inaccurate) quotes from nursery - she's nearly 8!)

agree wholeheartdly with Agnes - LAs talk all sorts of shit to put you off, guilttrip you, scaremonger, etc.

we also had the 'but your dd is not severe enough to go there, that's for the really severe cases' bullshit.

needless to say, we ignored, filed for tribunal, and carried on building our case. dd1 is now at that 'severe' school (she is in need of it, for various reasons) and is doing brilliantly, as her needs are being met.

I am still furious with the people who kept tellign me that dd1 ould cope in mainstream. I knew she woudl cope, but 'coping' is not all there is to life. and coping in mainstream took all her efforts, so she learned nothing. hell, coping in a SN school (class of 10, with 3 teachers/SALT/assistants) took all her efforts and she learned nothing.

Exactly silverfrog.. I told them "imagine how much he could learn if he wasn't spending all that energy just on COPING!"

Triggles you probably know that the LA have a year and a week from the date of your final statement or the last review, to give you their decision following annual review.

If they are refusing to amend the statement then you have a right of appeal. If they are stalling in sending you their decision and it is now out of timescale, Ipsea have a pro forma that you can send to your LA. It can be accessed from the link below click on the link and then choose Letter asking the LA to complete the annual review.

www.ipsea.org.uk/What-you-need-to-know/Downloadable-resources

The annual review process is not completed at the meeting itself but is completed in the letter that follows confirming the LA's position.

Good Luck Triggles, Ipsea also have an email question and answer facility now,

www.ipsea.org.uk/how-we-can-help/on-line-information-service.aspx?dm_i=PWP,RGFC,3XN8JD,27ZCL,1

I've gotten the letter saying this is our decision and you have a right to appeal. This most recent nonsense was after meeting with the caseworker as they stated they were willing to talk about it.

Ok well then you can appeal and hopefully cut short any future nonsense.
I think tribunal will cut timetable down to 16 weeks if urgent change of placement needed - you can ask for shortened timetable on the request for changes form at same time you file appeal

Ask for the full LA file now including any emails etc with placements they have approached and the response.

When we did this we found out the LA had sent the statement to 3 schools without us knowing who all expressed reservations which were never shared with us.

Oh didn't know I could do that. I will check into that thank you.

We wanted DS2 to start at SS in September. Obviously if we have to wait for EP it will be another year before everything is sorted out.

It's aggravating that they don't care at all about the distress and upset this is causing him on a daily basis.

What Agnes said. Ask for appeal to be expedited. Sendist will say that you need to ask LA to agree to this but i presume that if they refuse without good reason that this would count against them or that sendist could force their hand. You can always continue to negotiate once your appeal is in.

From my experience the most straight talking productive meetings we had with LA took place after the appeal went in - up to then felt like just stalling. You have a very strong case. I predict they will cave well before tribunal. Sorry for all you are going through.

Thanks for all the info!

We are going to file the appeal, requesting it be expedited. We will also make it clear that as the LA obviously felt that the EP report was current enough to conduct the annual review, then requesting a more current one only 2-3 weeks later is simply a delaying tactic.

You can make the point that the SENCOP requires them to collect evidence BEFORE the AR, not after! If they felt the evidence was not current they should have updated it BEFORE AR.

See SEN Toolkit & COP - have to scroll down to bit re AR's - says 4 stage process - collecting evidence is Stage 1 of AR! Was the EP invited to AR? asked to give written advice? if so then should have done so.

Thanks. Will make that point.