Persistent violent behaviour at school

[YakkaSkink]

DS (Y1) has really gone for it in the last couple of weeks - bit a child in playground who was disagreeing, hit friend's DC who is two years younger, bit his teacher twice, spat in the face a mealtime asistant and bit TA today. Last time this happened the school said that they 'didn't think they'd be able to keep him'.

Statement is in progress, Ed Psych seems to be suggesting ASD, though I'm still not convinced. DS is being taught separately in the mornings and there's no problem there but they want to 'integrate' him into the class during lunch and in the afternoons. I've tried everything and they've tried everything. He's deceptive and looks as though he ought to be OK, but he hates it and everything goes wrong in the afternoons. I keep asking for support in the afternoons, school are saying that even with a statement there isn't the money for a TA in the afternoons (statement doesn't cover the full cost of employing a TA). I think he needs the support and keep saying so, as does DS.

What happens to children in this situation? Where are they trying to suggest he should be if not at school?

Try ringing IPSEA for advice.
Sometimes under these circumstances schools try to implement a reduced timetable. I would be worried about "integrating" him at lunchtime, because the unstructured atmosphere of lunch time is hard for a lot of children to handle. My DS has ASD and we had him home for lunch (voluntarily) until he went to Secondary because we knew he wouldn't cope, and we were able to do it.
School are obliged to meet his needs and the money isn't your problem it's theirs.
We were asked to consider if DS' Junior School was really the place for him. As it was our nearest school DH refused to remove him and stood his ground.
I imagine other people will have more advice soon.

He's taught separately because he's not able to cope in class - can't follow instructions given to class as a whole, is wildly disruptive (runs, hides, climbs and makes barking noises, ignoreds anything said to him once he's in that state). It seems like a dose effect in that he can keep it together for a shorter time but asking a whole day in class of him is far too much. I think if they could put him in class first thing I'd have trouble getting him to school but if they tried for a bit mid-morning it could work better than when he's tired at the end of the day. They have a spare classroom with four chidlren and two HLTAs and it works fine academically, socially it's a bit limited. yes, with full-time support in the afternoons and the 1:2 he gets in the morning, he'd be happy.

Academically he's still just within the 'normal' range for his age despite being super bright so whether they agree to statement is actually a bit uncertain. He's deeply frustrated at his inability to read or write a simple sentence yet - but he's adoring Charlotte's Web and Fantastic Mr Fox when I read them to him. I don't think he's gaining ground (he'll fall below 'normal' for academic achievement soon) but he is making progress and I can't see how they could do better without taking him out of class altogether.

Emotionally, he's eccentric but I'm not sure where he is compared to the others - bottom end of 'normal' I'd say. Socially, he's a disaster area. Physically he has some hypermobility so weak at PE but I've done a lot of work with him and he can ride a bike and swim.

Funding is SO not your problem! It's actually a helluva lot cheaper to help children lke this early on than to allow the behavioral issues to become entrenched and for the wee 5 year old to become a strapping 6 foot adolescent.

Your job is to parent, schools is to educate and the office politics of how they fund that has fook all to do with you - don't ever let anyone convnce you otherwise (cos boy do they try at every available opportunity!).

My Mum taught several children who needed 2x full-time TA's at all times inc lunchbreaks, toilet trips etc. If that's what it takes in order for your child to access the curriculum and receive an adequate education then that is what the LAW says has to be provided. No ifs, buts, or maybes.

DS has that his TA has to have ASD specific training written into his statement - the staff having the correct knowledge and specific expertise to educate your child makes a massive difference. An afternoon or short course on generic SEN is nowhere near enough, teaching a VI child uses totally different technques to a deaf one, who again needs different adjustments from one with adhd. LEA's so often go for the cheapest option as regards staff training - as opposed to the most suitable until you pull them up on it. You may also need to have restraint training written in to reduce the risk to himself and others.

Has anyone done an environmental sensory assessment of the school environment - sometimes small changes can have a huge impact on behavior. He may need a formal sensory diet - these are often suprisingly low cost to implement given the potential benefits.

Has he done a proper ADOS/conners etc assessment or seen a neuropead? If not then get thee along to your GP's sharpish and demand he be assessed pronto . Sadly Ed pyschs can't diagnose, and you are right - it could be any number of other related disorders, (many not quite so serious as ASD). The vast majority though can all be helped by early professional intervention.

bochead is right - funding is absolutely not your problem.

The LA EP is likely to play down your son's needs and write recommendations in a vague way so it is harder to be enforced. If you can afford it, it's worth getting your own independent EP report as it won't be skewed toward minimising the cost of provision.

I would be careful about allowing him to attend on a reduced timetable. It may be less stressful in the short term, but it simply means shifting the responsibility of dealing with him from the school on to you. He has a right to a f/t education like all other children, including social time including lunchtimes, and taking him out just means they don't have to deal with it any more.

Are you otherwise happy with the school? In principle, the others are right that all schools should be prepared to meet your son's needs, but it's often hard for one parent to change an entire system. It might be worth looking around at other schools; getting the statement is one thing, but it takes the right school to implement it properly. Do you know if there are any schools with ASD units nearby?

FWIW, DS had behaviours and academics similar to your son and he moved from ms primary to a specialist secondary. It would probably have been better for him to have moved to specialist provision earlier.

The EP seems to have a lot of integrity - this one has written that he needs a trained 1-2-1 through breaks as well but DS's attainment levels aparently mean that he 'shouldn't' get a statement now (?), they are writing the draft statement or note in lieu now so I have no idea what's about to come out. If the last draft was any guide it will be very vague. I can't afford an independent EP anyway if I'm honest, but I'd be reluctant to agree to an ASD placement as he doesn't have a diagnosis and I'm not convinced that is actually the problem. There is one school with an ASD unit nearby that's very good but he's far too high functioning for them to take him and they're full with lots waiting. A reduced timetable will stop me working and being able to pay the mortgage so I'd fight it tooth and nail on that score alone (single parent, no maintenance) can they actually force me to look after him during the school day?

Yakka - I delayed pushing the authroities for fear of causing offence, until I found myself in a situation where it's been impossible to work for the last couple of years. As a lone parent with no maintenance & a mortgage it's not a nice place to be, and if I had my time again I'd have been a lot more "militant" in my approach from the beginning.

Do get onto your GP re a neuropead assessment & diagnosis - push hard!

Also contact IPSEA and SOSen to get their advice re statement etc. Statements can be awarded for behavioral issues as they impact learning so much - again you are being fobbed off.

If you get a note in lieu - put in an appeal asap. If you get a statement then ensure that every single element is properly specified and quantified - I had to go to Tribunal to acheve this but it was so worth it! (If I hadn't been so soft at the beginning perhaps it wouldn't have needed tribunal as they might have taken me more seriously?).

If your DS can't attend the lessons then surely that is a" barrier" to his learning ( and to others in the class too). This is what they look at when looking to award a statement - ie despite the help already given what barriers remain to his accessing the curriculum?

Do you think he may have sensory problems? Ie he can hold it together for a short while and then it becomes too much to handle? Has anyone looked at this as they can make adjustments in class to help this and give him regular movement breaks outside of the class. ( eg DS is sent on errands to allow him this without him realising)

DS was always worse in the afternoons because of the unstructured lunchtimes that made him deeply unhappy/left out impossible to cope with the noise smells etc. After lots of trial and error, they now do social skills groups, teach him to type, do group sports games in a way to teach social skills with him, in order to help him survive lunch in a more controlled manner. He now is able to return in the afternoons in a much calmer frame of mind.

We had some violence too - we found DS was being bullied but didn't realise it. We also found some of it stemmed from frustration ( think of a can of fizzy drink being shaken - something has upset ds but he looks OK as he is holding it together, then shake a bit more as something else upsets him and so on - then you release the lid........................). The school ( and us) spent a lot of time looking at anger - what sparked it and teaching him how to control it or to seek help before it overflowed. It takes time, understanding and patience but can be done. I bought a few useful books on Amazon and then found the TA was using some of the same ones.

My DS (in Yr 2) is just like this.

He was diagnosed wit Asperger's in reception year and got a Statement for the beginning of Year 1. He would have had 35 hours a week 1-2-1 support if he had stayed in mainstream, but instead we found a place for him at a resourced provision for children with ASC, attached to a mainstream school where they integrate the children at their own pace, if appropriate.

Like your DS, my DS can have periods of being pretty OK and seemingly calm and pleasant, but then BAM, he will go mental over something and attack. He was excluded dozens of times form his last school, who could not cope woth his behaviour at all. Things are a bit better now, in so much as the staff re properly trained in conflict resolution, restraint techniques etc, however, he still has some pretty scary outbursts.

You need to get as much support as you can muster up now. Has he seen an OT? he could benefit from a full sensory assessment which may help to identify some of his triggers and give the school 9and you_ strategies for dealing with these.

Does he see a SALT? Sometimes SALTS do some good work with children with social communication issues.

Who is he seeing at CAMHS? DS initially saw a psychotherapist, but it had little impact. He now sees a clinical psychologist with expertise in bevioural issues in children with ASC. We are seeing some slow but gradual results from this.

Definitely do contact IPSEA, and do some research into alternative education provision just in case.

Good luck, and f you need any advice or support, PM me.

one thing to remember is that these behaviors are likely to stem from anxiety. Think frightened animal. Then find what is causing the anxiety. Is it the noise the caos the lack of structure, the unpredictability of the other kids. its worth getting the school to keep a ABC diary. antecedant what went on before the incident. behavior and the consequence. Social stories and a visual timetable may help to. And very cleardirection

Oh, so much good advice, thank you! :-) SALT feels that his language is fine with no ASD indications though I think his cleverness may be masking it if it's there, he was still doing pronoun reversal when she asssessed him at 5 1/2 - she did comment that he was very had to keep focussed as have several others so I feel ADHD needs to be considered too but Paed is not willing to look there for some reason at the moment. OT has recommended pencil grips and weighted shoulder thingy (but didn't supply either item) - and went off to try to get more advice on continence issues which have just resolved anyway with bladder control finally at 6. I'm sorting a BIBIC sensory assessment (anyone know if these are any good?) as I can see he has sensory issues but not enough detail came out with the OT assessment for the statement. Not seeing anyone at CAHMS yet, he's just sat on a waiting list of indeterminate length - need to chase to find out a bit more about how long and what might be at the end of the wait.

Yes, definitely a frightened animal, he just hates noise, sitting still and busy environments, but he's also very academically frustrated. Ed Psych and I agree that he'd like a Montessori school - but not going to happen in the State system sadly. What's the best way to begin to look at alternative provision? given that I don't really know what the problem is, I mean it's rather crucial getting the right type of setting and I don't know which way to look.

Just a word of advice: not all OTs have expertise in sensory assessment Might be worth doing a bit of research into private OTs that do if money will stretch, or pushing your PCT for an expert opinion.