Please can I ask for advice? (violent behaviour)

[Anewnamenow]

might be in wrong place if so please redirect me.....

I've name changed it will be obvious why.

Ds age 8 has had issues for a while we are undergoing yet another assessment ADHD and Aspergers have both been mentioned but there is a lot not 'right' about both of those, auditory processing disorder is the most recent thing being worked up but again I'm not sure what follows fits with that.

Today he hit his brother age 6 in the mouth knocking out one of his baby teeth which was already loose (but only slightly so)

We are at our wits end and really don't know what to do next.

Ds1 has spent a lot of the day in his room, ds2 got taken out for a treat (and TBH a break), ds was asked to write a letter of apology to his brother, (my dh borrowed that idea from school) after about 3 hours a poor attempt was produced which improved dramatically after some guidance was given, he struggled to be in his room in that he seems to almost need company, he tried to come out several times and kept asking me if i knew where they had gone and when they would be back he then wrote us a letter telling us he was sorry and loved us and had learnt his lesson but could we please tell him where they had gone earlier and take him there tomorrow so he doesnt miss out

(Dh said great he's learnt something I said he's missed the whole point)

Violence has been an issue towards his brother in the past but never resulting in any injury, recently we have started to really clampdown on it, we never ignored it but did allow what I thought was consistent with normal sibling rolling around etc

I suspect he has come pretty close to violence in the past since his school tried to do some kind of volcano programme with him last term.
At home he gets 'stressed' about stuff but not What I would call violent TBH

We didnt see what happened, ds1 initially said that ds2 took his hand and made ds1 hit him in the mouth, ds2 denied that, we havnt persued that line since it makes little difference IMHO

So apologies for the length of the post and that it is bitty
any advice as to what to do next? How do we lessen the violence and deal with it and protect our children?
How do we 'punish' ds1 appropriately?

As a minor point do we tell people this happened, if so who? I am very concerned about labelling ds and affecting his future chances yet if he carries on like this he will do that for himself

Thanks

does your ds know when he's getting stressed? we had to learn dd to have time out when she was getting stressed, we could see when she was getting angry and stressed and send her to her room, she had some soothing lighting to put on in her room and relaxing music.we also do hand and foot massage to help with stress levels, she loves the body shop, body butter for this as some of the smells are relaxing.she also has a soft blanket she snuggles to relax, (lighting was from car boot) so very cheap, hth

Oooh thanks for replying I actually need to think about that because I'm not sure!

could sit down and describe the feeling in the belly, some ppl get fidgets, etc, see if you can find out how he was feeling before he hit his brother, and point out what he should do if he starts to get that feeling again, dd says time out just to warn ppl to keep away from her room while she de-stresses.sometimes she cant say it so she has a sign to hang on her door handle( keep out or else) lol

With ds (AS/ADHD) I have had to learn and watch his stress levels for him and learn when the triggers are. Then I have had to jump in beforehand and comment to him that he is stressed right now and its calm down time. We make a special bed on the sofa so he is wrapped in a fleece or he is allowed out in the back garden on his own with his headphones which both help him to chill and to let him jump about and release tension as his sensory seeking takes over and he cannot calm down sometimes by himself so quickly. Over the last few months I have found DS volountarily going up to chill in his room or ask to go outside.

Also I ease a situation by suddenly giving dd a job to do ie. take washing upstairs and could she put her socks away. It creates a gap between them and I can distract DS with another job with me. This helps.

We have the same age gap between my two and the eldest, who has ASD and ADHD can become very violent. We find that the only way to prevent it is to pre-empt it. It has become obvious to us when he is upset and about to kick off and we do our best to head it off by redirecting, where we can and making it clear what the consequence will be if he goes ahead with whatever undesirable behaviour appears to be looming. Sometimes, we simply have to make sure we put ourselves between the two boys, since DS2 also has ASD and has taken to pushing DS1's buttons.

Time out in his room doesn't work for us. Last time he did that, we thought he was redirecting his anguish well by re-organising his books. The next day, I removed his dressing gown from his windowsill to find that he'd cracked the window behind it. We also find that forcing an apology is just plain counter-productive, as he is demand avoidant and under duress convinces himself more and more that his behaviour was justified.

If ADD and Aspergers not feeling quite right, have a google of Pathological Demand Avoidance. It's a spectrum thing but doesn't look it at first glance.

Thanks guys

Just to clarify there is absolutely no violence of any sort at home, and we do understand how horrifying this is

His brother wasn't taken out for a treat as such but dh wanted to go to the electronics shop (Currys Dixons type place) so ds2 was taken along too. There was certainly no mention around the house of ds being 'treated'

Ouryve I feel for you!

Separate thread I guess but do your ds's not play fight at all, have a tramp for exercise and stress relief and the boys are frequently rolling around, of course they are pulled up but............
I also see other boy siblings roll around at school park too

Zzzzzz can I ask what sanctions you use, I'm rewlly struggling to come up with something appropriate to reflect the severity IYSWIM

Thanks again

I will look for triggers tomorrow and see if I can consciously articulate them rather than just subconsciously

Tbh we had no expectation this was about to happen boys had just got back from 3 hours of football, music and were happily playing Lego!,

Play fights with siblings are normal, but to me, they're one of the normal areas of life that we aren't capable of doing happily and safely. Same as a lot of other things: I see other families doing ordinary, simple things with their dc, and feel a bit and [jealous]. but I know that trying to imitate them would be harmful for the dc, hassle for dh, and sanity-threatening for me.

No play fights here either we had to stop which DH misses as he loved rough and tumble play with DS but he would still carry on with DD after not to hurt but he has absolutely no sense of strength. :(

The only thing I do with ds is play wriggly worms where I use my wriggly fingers to gentley tickle him. Idea is to help him with light touch from others as he is sensitive to it. But I have to limit to a certain time or I am jumped on from high.

Would both boys understand the concept of a safety word if you introduced it? My big two (one is Aspergers) have one ("Boogiewoogie!") so if someone's had enough/getting hurt/frightened they shout that and the other person has to stop. They are also reminded that if they want to wrestle they can't complain if they get hurt. Unfortunately my youngest loves a good wrestle with them but wouldn't understand the concept. Hopefully soon...

Oh and do you have a trampoline? They are great for burning off energy.

The boys don't play fight at all. There's occasional tickling going on, which we have to monitor closely because DS1 has no idea how inadvertently rough he's being when he does that - even hugs and kisses from him are stressful affairs involving lots of crashing and grabbing. DS1 Disapproves of even pretending to fight, though, and I don't even think it crosses DS2's mind to do it.

Behaviours we see more of involve DS1 trying to control how DS2 plays and behaves. yes, he can be genuinely helpful, but when it becomes clear that he's forbidding DS2 from completing a 6 piece Timmy jigsaw before his 12 piece Paxton jigsaw, we know we have to step in before it gets physical (or before DS2 starts screaming or crying, which is like a red rag to a bull with DS1)