Help! I don't know how to parent my NT 3yr old......

[StarshitTerrorise]

She nags and nags for sweets or something and when I say no, she cries and stamps her feet and refuses to move and sometimes lies down. I walk off and she shouts 'my mummy's left me' and passers by attend her every whim until I have to go back and drag her out of their view.

On the bus on the way home I told her not to push past people to the back. She di just that and then shreaked when I sat near the front, insisting that I sat next to her. When I didn't she refused to sit down at all and the bus driver refused to drive until she did and she still did no sit down until I agreed to sit next to her.

I held onto her instead and the bus driver agreed to go but she spent the whole journey hurting the other passengers ears with her screams the WHOLE 15 mins home.

What I really wanted to do was chuck her off the bus!

I can see the signs of this starting with dd (2.6) too. In the supermarket today she suddenly shouted out "don't scratch me mummy"

Three syllables for you.

A. B. A.

ABA yes, but unlike children with autism she is a socially manipulative monkey with huge capacity for emotional intelligence. She could out-wait the best of consultants, I bet, and get a first class honours in cutting of her nose to spite her face!!!!!!!

Grrrrr

And Hothead, dd did that the other day in the upper market when I told her to stop touching things 'wah, mummy I don't like it when you smack me, it hurts'.

I never touched her, but started fantasising about it at that point!

I suppose the thing is that she is familiar with ABA herself somehow. She uses it naturally to get Ds to play with her and include her. She KNEW that the bus wasn't going to move unless she sat down and that if I didn't sit next to her then all these people woukd be cross with ME not her!!!!

She IS great for Ds though. Somehow gets him playing dolls with her. But grrrrr, I'm not looking forward to the teenage years.

Hi star, i am going to give you a little hope. My Dd2 was the most stubborn little girl.

She knew all the tricks before she even went to nursery.

When she was 8 i was terrified of what she would be like as a teen. She is 16.5 now and is lovely. She can still be stubborn and is not great with Dd3.

She is funny, a great friend, honest and we are really glad we worked so hard with her when she was younger.

Dont get me wrong she still thinks she is a princess sometimes and she sure knows how to use pester power to the limit. But overall she is fab.

Yep it's amazing how socially manipulative and goddamn smart dd is, at just 2 and a half. I suppose part of it is comparison to what ds was like at her age () but maybe we're just not used to dealing with nt children.

And I can also can see how good she is for ds. Except when she's being deliberately annoying and turning the tv off when he's watching it, standing on the book he's reading, or whacking him for no reason. Poor boy, has the patience of a saint. The mand he learnt a year ago "mummy can you move dd please" has come in useful

Btw when is dc no.3 arriving??

2014 hopefully!

Thanks bialy and Ineed. I know it isn't really a SN topic but whilst I knew you'd point out ABA I really wasn't up for the laymans ABA that you'd get on the main board, I.e give her time out etc or a sticker for good behaviour etc.

I suppose I could have got off the bus and made her walk the 1.5 miles home but she IS 3.

Perhaps next time. She'll certainly remember to be good on the bus in the future. I'll even make her carry my bag he he he.......

First week in June really but still in denial!

erm , dd1 is the most socially manipulative and emotionally aware child there could be. she can (and has, and does, and will forever-bloody-more) outwait anyone.

dd2 came along, noticed all this, learnt from it and used it mercilessly. she had us all over a barrel for a long, long time.

we did fix it (mostly) eventually, via ABA specifically focussing on the control/emotional element, and school did a lot to help (with our guidance, which they have always been happy to listen to thankfully). the guys in America were very good for this type of thing (dd2 was the main reason we went)

Okay, so it's back to schramm for me then.........

Btw, how many weeks are you now? 28?

Yeah, 28 ish. Keep losing track, tbh

I also have an 3 year old nt dd and she sounds very similar to yours.

Today she made a big show of shouting, mummy don't hit me and cowering quite spectacularly as I swung the car door shut, cleverly executed in front of a crowd of shocked and highly disapproving grannies .... and my mother!

I have never so much as clipped the little monster darling with a car door in her life, so lord only knows where that came from.

Her other favourite is "Mummy don't leave me on my own - again!" when she has never in her life been left on her own and had no intention of even stepping away from her, let alone abandoning her to her fate.

She is getting better though, she'll be 2.5 mid June and I think she's actually settling down a bit now after a couple of months of trying desperately to take control of the whole family - especially me. Unfortunately for her she has only inherited a watered down version of my stubborness, so she has met her match in me.

Now if I could just stop her deliberately doing fake coughs in ds1's direction that would be fantastic. (Ds1 is convinced he's going to catch ebola or something equally as devastating from her doing this and reacts accordingly, which is apparently highly rewarding to a 3 year old wind-up merchant.)

DD3 is just 3 years old. She is very clever, very verbal, very 12.

I have found that the best thing for my sanity is to very quickly assess whether something is negotiable, non-negotiable, or actually just me wanting her to do things my way.

1. negotiable - long drawn out discussion leading to compromise, a happy Lougle and a happy DD3.

2.non-negotiable but plenty of time - either a) coax DD3 to the right conclusion, or b) distract her with something completely pointless for long enough to make her think that when I return to the subject it was her idea all along .

A classic example of this is today: DD3 was petrified of preschool. Pale, quivering wreck. I withdrew her, and tried again after easter. 2 sessions in, she really enjoys it, but still a little wobbly. They have an optional uniform. DD3 does not want to wear it. I want her to, in part because if she gets the idea that she doesn't have to then it will be a nightmare later.

SO, DD3 is adamant she will not wear the uniform. It has a frog on the front. I spend 10 minutes demonstrating that Mummy can jump and boing much higher if she is wearing the t-shirt than without. Then I hold the t-shirt up to DD3 and ask her to do her best boing. AMAZING - what a great boing. Let's get it on then

1. non-negotiable and no time - DD3, I'm going to count to 3 and you will do x, y, z or I will do it for you/you will sit on the naughty step/no telly/blah blah (whatever is her current favourite thing or whatever she hates most). Count matter of factly, no emotion 1, 2...don't let me get to 3, DD3.....I very rarely get to 3. She'll push it until I have my tongue on my teeth to make the 'Th' sound, but she'll get there!

1. Me just wanting her to do things my way - 'Sorry, DD3. Mummy's being a bit stubborn...go ahead and do it your way'. It doesn't hurt to change my mind, and it is a good thing to admit to DD3 that I get things wrong, too.

Off-topic sorry but silver I didn't know you were pg
Very very very late congratulations! How did I miss that?

Sorry for hijack. Will revisit this thread tomorrow when I'm not so tipsy. Iit's nice to talk about non-SN things we're going through with people with SN experience iyswim.

Lougle ... do you fit into your dd's preschool frog tshirt?

Great plan by the way - the boingy frog thing - that's just the sort of thing that works best with dd. We also use the 1,2,3 rule for non-negotiable stuff and 99.99999% of the time she's given in before I finished saying 1.

I find with the negotiable stuff, she often forgets what the big deal was by the time we get to the end of the discussion, so I end up getting my way anyway.

moosemama...I'm cringing, but will allow you to laugh at me. I was so desperate, that I partially unzipped my coat, placed the t-shirt across my chest and zipped the coat back up enough to trap it in place, to demonstrate the new boingy powers

I was desperate, running out of time, but sure that DD3 had to wear it, because if I gave in, she would make a fuss every week and then when school comes she'll think that uniform is optional, too.

It's DD2 (4.8) that kills me. She is so incredibly literal. She hit her eye on a slide handrail and had a massive black eye. Swollen, multi-coloured affair.

The girls were in bed but DD1 and DD3 were mucking around. I marched in (after much toing and froing) and said 'that's enough. Close your eyes and GO TO SLEEP.

Poor darling DD2, who to be fair had been laying quietly, said in a very timid voice 'but Mummy...I do want to be a good girl, but I can't close my eyes, I can only close my one eye because my other eye is already closed.'

What can you do with that?

Ah, I'm disappointed now. I had visions of you squeezing yourself into the t-shirt and boinging around the room.

Still think it was an inspired idea though and totally get why you needed to resort to such subtefuge (sp?).

Bless dd2 and her poorly eye though. Hope it heals quickly. "I do want to be a good girl ...." aww.

Nightmare Star I felt myself getting all update and anxious on your behalf over the bus incident. My DD she's isn't NT but did loads more attention seeking / downright sneaky and unpleasant behaviours when I was heavily pregnant too it's like they can sense you are huge hormonal volcano awaiting to erupt. Sorry didn't mean that you are Huge
Only one thing for it just stay in the house don't venture out again until your DD is at least 7.

Oh but she sounds great. I would really love one more NT child just to experience all those sorts of things because I think I'd appreciate them now when I took them for granted with the others tbh. I'm getting on a bit and think the odds of NT are against me so I'll just have to enjoy your stories instead I suppose.

Thanks everyone.

Don't worry Leonie. I didn't mean to upset you and don't expect you to sympathise.

I suppose I am just taken a bit by surprise and I think he context of SN is relevant to my experience and confusion and frustration.

Perhaps I've concentrated too much on Ds. I know how to handle him. I've possibly both ignored dd and spoiled her as well as have expectations beyond the realistic as she is my first NT.