Choosing a school (for 2013)- yes, I know I'm early, but bear with me!

[Galena]

DD was born at 27 weeks and has mild cerebral palsy. She is not affected cognitively (taught herself to read at Christmas aged 2yr 9mo - I know that doesn't make her a genius, but she's bright), however, physically she was a late walker, not walking till 2yr 2 mo and still very wobbly. She can't run, jump, etc and tires easily. She has a wheelchair for distance use and barely copes with a morning at playgroup before she collapses in a sobbing heap because she's tired.

There are 3 local schools near here - let's call them A, B and C.
A is the church school connected to the church we attend regularly. There are 200 pupils on roll and it has an 'Excellent' Ofsted rating.
B is a school which was in special measures a number of years ago (2007), however now has a 'Good' Ofsted rating. It has 100 pupils on roll.
C is the closest school. It is a separate infant and junior school. The infant school has 210 pupils and 'Good' rating, the juniors has 300 pupils and 'Excellent' rating.

I plan on contacting each school soon to visit them. However, I have no idea how to go about choosing a suitable school for her. I don't know what questions to ask them. Any suggestions?

Can you speak to the Area SENCO connected with your Pre-School? They would probably be a good place to start as far as good ideas for school provision. Not that they're allowed to recommend anywhere, if she's good she will advise you on the right sort of questions you should ask each school.
When is she 5? Could you delay her a year just to get her energy levels up? School is exhausting for them anyway, and she may well struggle with the activity levels.
I would personally choose a smaller school, as smaller class pupil numbers can mean a greater amount of space within the classroom.
Does she have a statement yet? This is all about getting the right sort of provision in place for your child. It also helps to highlight areas in the school where they may/will have to make some adaptions to be more disability aware. Toilets, ramps, handrails, wider doorways etc.

Galena, if you want to PM me I may have some insider knowledge.

Agree with Sallybear school B, not so overwelming, tiring more time with teacher...possibly more space to go somewhere and have a rest....less noise and less crowded also makes a difference too.
Is their space for dd to have a rest?
Do they mind her resting between lessons or at break lunch times...would they allow other dc to sit with her 1;1 so she still has play but a board game etc?
Wheelchair access if she requires wheel chair?
Would 1:1 be with her at break times to ensure she gets rest/not bullied etc
All schools would have to meet her physical disability as discrimination otherwise. Personally school A - religious schools worse for rejecting disabilities
School C to many dc total overload and sounds 'big' so a lot more going from A to B as larger school possibly too large for her?

Hi, speak to the senco. Having had my dd1 moved from one school (it was special measures) due to the appalling senco I know what a hassle it is if you get a crap one! Dd1 now at outstanding school and achieving highly with a fab senco! Take dd with you on school visits, don't tell them what she CAN do but tell them what she CAN'T do and wha she will need help with ie toiletting etc. You will judge by their reaction to you and dd if its going to be good for her.

Sorry forgot to add I've two friends with SN kids. One attends Catholic school one attends CoE school both are crap with special needs. So be prepared. Although obviously not all faith schools the same x

Oh and I meant to say Galena, it's never too early to start looking. We looked at secondary school when the twins were in year 5! We also looked at the schools three times before making our decision. They started in year 7.

Thanks all - some great ideas. And Ellen, I shall PM you forthwith!

:)

Very interesting - I spoke to all 3 schools today to organise a time to be shown round and speak to the SENCO.

School A - SENCO only works on a Monday and she is teaching all day Monday so no, I can't speak to her. The secretary will show me round. Tours of the school are at 10am and 2pm.

School B - SENCO works Mon am and Tue pm. Yes, of course I can come and talk to her and look around. Would I like her to phone me beforehand to discuss anything? Even asked for DD's name.
School C - Put through to the head. SENCO works Tue/Wed. Yes, of course I can come and look around and talk to the SENCO. As soon as I mentioned CP they asked if she was a wheelchair user. Arranged a time for me to go in and chat. Have had wheelchair users in the past.

Really interesting how unhelpful the (vastly oversubscribed) church school was (bearing in mind it has a S&L unit attached to it). Also how friendly the other 2 schools were. Going to see school A this afternoon, school C next Tuesday and school B the Tuesday after. Will be looking very carefully.

SallyBear, how do I find out about contacting the Area SENCo? I didn't even know they existed!

Does your LA have a Special Educational Needs and Disabilities Inclusion Service (SENDIS)? Your pre-school will have contact with the Area SENCO as they advice the local pre-schools and nurseries of what types of provisions, targets etc they need to provide/achieve for SEN kids in their care.

Watching your thread with interest, ds is only 22 months (will be due to start primary in Sept 2014) and I am already panicking about which primary!

I am having a hard enough time trying to sort out which nursery to go to with him.

I have no idea, SallyBear! I shall speak to playgroup tomorrow about the area SENCO and about SEN. She really ought to be on SA or SA+ I guess so that if we need to move through the statementing process she's already in the system.

Hazey - we went for this playgroup because it has links with the church we attend and the school we were planning on her going to. Now we're thinking the school may not be the best for her, but we'll live - and choose a different school if needed. I'm wondering whether it's more the secretary at this school rather than the school itself, iyswim...

Galena, your nursery will have the details of the area SENCo. If your DD has IEPs she should be on Early Years Action. If the nursery has involvement with other professionals for your DD, like SALT, OT, EP etc she should be EY Action plus. I didn't find my area SENCo much cop, TBH. School Action etc takes over from Reception age.

There is the advisory teaching service ATS in our LA link here which has different advisory teachers depending on the SEN. There is a bit of information on Early Years link here which doesn't look too informative. The ATS is the equivalent of SENDIS, I think. They got more involved with my DS once he started school but he did go to an Early Year SS ('B') from 3yo that you may know, so he was already in the system quite early.

I'd insist that you need to see the SENCo at your school A. The secretary probably won't have a clue what the SENCos job is. You don't just want a tour of the school like any other prospective parent. You need to discuss your DD's SN.

Schools usually have SENCos that are also teachers and have some time off, sometimes only 1/2 a day a week, to do their SENCo role. They do not teach during their SENCo time, though. Some have p/t SENCos who do the role at more than one school. Again, they must have time free for IEP reviews, Annual reviews etc, to meet parents. That's their job. I am surprised you didn't get past the secretary. I suppose SEN that is not communication and interaction may be dealt with differently?

At my DS's old primary we only had a 1/2 day SENCo who was also a class teacher, because the school managed to have very few DC with SEN. My DS was the only DC with a statement in a school of 200+. You've guessed it, oversubscribed Ofsted outstanding church school! (Not yours though!) I would say he did well at primary despite of the school, not because of it.

At my current (church, oversubscribed) school the SENCo is there 4 mornings, much more emphasis on SEN, much more inclusive. In a slightly less middle class area.

Good luck with your visits.

Thanks Ellen. DD went to the Early Year SS (B, indeed!) CDC from the age of 4 months till 2yr 9mo - she left in January when she started mainstream pre-school. She wasn't able to stay because she was too able. I need to discuss IEPs with her keyworker... I hadn't really thought about it yet...

We went this afternoon to look around school A. There are more stairs than I knew could exist in a school! The secretary showed me round, and having sounded very abrupt on the phone, actually was lovely. Apparently they had a child with CP there a while ago. I have made an appointment to speak to the head about specifics next week, but I just don't know. They really have to persuade me they are right for her. The impression I got was that the SENCO is there 1 day a week and teaches for that day, which concerns me in itself! I shall ask the head next week.

School B's SENCO can't make the time I'd arranged to look round the school, so phoned me at lunchtime today to have a chat. I'll go to the school in a couple of weeks as planned and just won't speak with her then. She was very reassuring. She used to be a TA in a school working with children with profound physical disabilities including CP and has a child (not disabled) a year older than DD. She also gave me her email address. That school is all on one level.

I know which way I'm leaning at the moment...

There's a lot to be said for a more inclusive ethos. Schools in areas slightly less 'posh' for want of a better word, are quite often more inclusive, IMO. If school B has had money and expertise given to it to improve it's Ofsted, it may be that it is now much better than its old reputation. You do need to visit, just to make sure. Gut feeling can't be overrated IMO. See if you can see your DD fitting in among the classes. How are the classes organised? If it's small, do they have mixed year groups? How do you feel about that for your DD?

This booklet may be of interest. Out of date for you, but still current.

By the way, DS2's time at B was very emotional, but the best! The school almost closed while he was there and I was a governor. They have had to take DC with more severe SN since that time, to survive. Most DC went on to MS when my DS went there. He's now 12.

My dd was in a similar situation, v mild CP (no wheelchair needed). But I made sure she got into the local primary that had no stairs, amongst other things. Even now, aged 10, she would find it quite frightening/dangerous to be going down a stairs with other kids rushing round her. Also, a good SENCO is worth his/her weight in gold.

Thanks EllenJane. I'm really looking forward to visiting B. I'm hoping it feels nice, because it feels the best at the moment. And being on one level, we may be able to get in on medical grounds if we can swing it because it's the only local school which is on one level!

Thanks for that booklet. It's interesting reading.

I would investigate with the LA if your DD's CP would count as medical condition for admissions. Otherwise would she get a statement?

Not sure - I've only started thinking about things this week, so I am completely at sea! Will check though!

If you could get her a place at school B due to it being the only one with suitable access, it would be worth a shot. Medical is second after siblings, I believe.

Yep. Would definitely make life easier. I need to visit B though to see if it really is nicer than the others. If it is, though, I will be looking into the medical aspect. Would be fab if I could guarantee her the best school for her needs. :)

Thank you so much for your help, Ellen!

I would personally look into getting her a statement sooner rather than later - it will take a minimum of 6 months from the day you request it(and that's without any time wasting by the lea) and there is no reason why she shouldn't have it NOW...to help with her time in pre-school in order for her to access like her peers.
and even with a statement it won't guarantee her a place at the school of your choice as the lea could 'name a mainstream school of parental preference' and then you would be responsible for transport(I know it's a naughty way to work but that's how most leas play it) and also would you get 'siblings' in to that school?(if needed)
make sure you get help when applying for the statement and when you receive the first proposed - get it checked out by ipsea as lea's are likely to write it so badly that it doesn't mean anything and they hope that you as a parent will just be grateful that you have a statement , that you won't query it - can you tell i learned the hard way?
Good luck and you know where we all are if you need any help

Hi I keep meaning to reply on various threads, and I will do today I promise. I'm supposed to be working though.

As you may know my DS is a year behind but is already in the system through nursery and they are looking at a statement as the system round here is changing to put medical needs into the statementing system, and so given DS has physio at nursery and will do at school, they are sorting the statement out now (it also helps that he's young as it is different money appraently before they are 4/5 when its cp. I think social services, but to be honest I don't care).

The physios have both said they will play the system to make sure the statement names the school we want for DS provided its not huge as they think he needs a small school. They say they can explain why it must be schoo x, y or z

In our case school x is the nearest, all one floor 30 children in each year, we are in catchment. Next door neighbours send their children their, but have just withdrawn them as they didn't get on with the school given their childs needs

School y next nearest good reputation 90 children. Probably too big

School z is the smallest and about1.5 miles away we have a city location. Lovely small school only admit 19 children, not always full because its catchment is so small.

I have another year to think but I think z may be for us. There is also a slightly wacky private school very near which may be suitable plus a couple of hot house private primaries which may or may not work.

In your case get the physios on side, visit the schools, get the statement and try and name the schools. I would also say our physios have told us their experience of being in schools and providing therapy in situ in different schools which does help inflcuence our view

Well, physio came into playgroup today and has given them lots of ideas of things to help DD. She agrees that school B sounds good so far - and says that yes, we can definitely get her into that school on medical grounds if it's as good as it sounds. I've contacted them today and rearranged the visit so I am going tomorrow afternoon to see them. Someone yesterday asked me whether, if school B looked good, whether I'd change her to their playgroup and I said 'No, I like her present playgroup.' However, the physio's face when she walked in earlier and various children were racing round at 100 miles an hour was a picture, and she feels a smaller, quieter playgroup would suit DD better.

So, I've also contacted school B about their playgroup which is run as a separate entity but the play leader is on holiday so she'll get back to me next week and I'll see the facilities tomorrow. I'm quite nervous really. This is the school with the reputation that makes all teachers in the area wince, take a sharp breath and say 'Oooh, no, not school B!'. However, they have turned themselves around, and will have a lot of support in place if they were in special measures 4 years ago.

I am also nervous because I don't want to be disappointed tomorrow. The SENCO sounds great, the secretary sounded welcoming, it looks perfect on paper. What if it's no good?! Then what will I do?!

Physio and I also discussed statement, and she feels that 1 to 1 support in preschool and starting school is important. So now I'm trying to work out where I go next!

Fun and games...

Get on to the ipsea website and they have draft letters that you can adapt to your own situation, just put three or four bullet points as to why your dd will need more help 'to access the curriculum' than the average child

1. poor balance
2. uses a wheelchair on longer days/days she is tired
3. does she or can you see her in the near future wear afo's or lycra suit? as with lycra suit could possibly need help with toileting self care
4. feeding - does she struggle to cut up food(my dd still has a tendency to shred or tear at food rather than actually cut
5. does she have any feeding issues? does she easily 'gag' or choke if distracted?(it is quite hard for a mid day assistant - supervising 30?/nursery worker to be supervising 10-15 children when there is a lot of noise - a child quietly choking is not so obvious

6.Frustration - not being able to do things like her peers, why should she have to wait to dress up in a fairy outfit when she wants to join in with her friends now but the nursery worker/teaching assistant(if the class has one full time) is dealing with 'the child with bad behaviour 'again. Hope some of these ideas help Please do it now-it's never too soon