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Can ABA really be useful for a very high-functioning child with Aspergers?

13 replies

Penneyanne · 27/04/2012 12:39

I know that Moondog is running a seminar on this soon but unfortunately I cannot attend this. I am considering buying the ABA book by Robert Schramm "Motivation and Reinforcement", but I am struggling to see how I can use it for ds,12,AS. I want to do everything I possibly can for him and as he is supposedly mild/HF he is getting no input apart from some support at school but I am at a loss as to what exactly I can do for him myself. His issues really are with anxiety(though not severe) , lack of social skills, obsessional issues and problems with concentration. But he has no 'behavioural issues' as such iyswim. So would it be beneficial to get this book and try and adapt it myself a little? - would it give me some good ideas/pointers etc?. Or is there any point when a child is very high-functioning and without a specific behaviour problem?Confused. He also has symptoms of dyspraxia although this is not dx.

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StarshitTerrorise · 27/04/2012 12:56

I think you are getting confused about the definition of behaviour tbh.

If his behaviour typical of his peers in social situations? Can it get him unto trouble, be a barrier to independence, forming relationships, being accepted?

If so, he has behaviour which he might need to learn how to change, or at least control.

bochead · 27/04/2012 13:14

YES!

Treehouse school and the charity ambitous about autism occasionally run courses for the HF mob.

There are 2 that spring to mind that you might find really useful
Communicating & social skills - HFA/AS
Challenging behavior for HFA

Not sure if those are the correct titles.

My DS has never needed a formal 40 hour week ABA programme, but those 2 courses have been incredibly helpful for both me and the school. It's helped massively with reducing anxiety. The whole point about ABA is that it is an incredibly personalised approach so allows you to help with those issues than many of the more conventional SEN methods seem to gloss over or overlook.

I used ABA principles to teach stuff like eye contact & subtle stuff like how to respond to another child's teasing etc - it's not just for more severely affected chidren. DS has friends, gets invited on play dates etc because ABA has allowed me to iron out the kinks in his social skills that were proving to be a barrier.

The social stories that schools offer don't always break down social communication anywhere far enough often we need an insert before DS can fuly access the social story iyswim.

Moondog rec's Headsprout as an IT programme to hep language comprehension & literacy for more HF kids. This uses ABA principles.

I feel quite strongly there is a massive need for a tool beyond the VB mapp that goes to at least 14 for use with asd older kids and young adults.

Penneyanne · 27/04/2012 13:16

That really is what I'm asking I think 'Starshit'-you have just worded it betterSmile. I am never sure if things like problems with social skills, concentration etc can be classified as 'behaviour problems' ? His behaviour is not typical really of his peers I suppose in that he doesnt have the knack of easy-flow conversation , no interest in sport,hobbies like his peers etc but it never gets him into trouble either-he never suffers from meltdowns as described by so many parents here. So when you put it to me like that then I guess,yes, it is his behaviour that is creating a barrier to him being independant,forming relationships,being accepted etc. So I suppose that he does indeed have 'behaviour problems' but when asked I would always be inclined to say 'no,he has no real bahaviour issues'. Such a steep learning curve isnt it?Confused

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Penneyanne · 27/04/2012 13:22

Crosspost 'Bochead'-thanks for that. Very useful information. I will look into it and I will also get the book I think-it seems to be the most recommended book on ABA. Eye-contact is also an issue for us but I never thought it would be classified as a 'behaviour' as such that could be changed. I dont know if I am making any sense here -I just dont know enough about ABA I guess.

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StarshitTerrorise · 27/04/2012 13:30

When most people in education refer to behavioural problems they mean problems caused by the chimd for the teachers, or other children. Rarely do they mean behavioural problems that only impact on the child themselves. As this is not a problem for anyone else it is often overlooked.

My ds' behavioural problems are pretending to be incapable of things well within his capability, not responding to people when they ask a question, not listening to instructions, not paying enough attention to social conventions such as queuing to be able to follow them etc etc. He doesn't chuck chairs or scratch people.

Penneyanne · 27/04/2012 13:38

Yes, similar here starshit.Ds would have difficulty following a queue, concentrating when asked a question,not listening to instruction properly. That is where I have been getting confused- chucking chairs, scratching people etc are in my mind 'behaviour problems' not things like following instruction, concentrating when questioned etc. So in that case then I guess ABA would indeed be very useful for us as a tool .

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StarshitTerrorise · 27/04/2012 13:55

Yes, but unfortunately addressing chucking chair behaviour is a lot easier than addressing paying attention to social conventions behaviour and professionals are less motivated to help with the latter than the former.

bochead · 27/04/2012 14:05

" Rarely do they mean behavioural problems that only impact on the child themselves. As this is not a problem for anyone else it is often overlooked." yet it can cause the child great distress over time and star makes a brilliant point here.

I look upon all social interaction as "behavior" and try and teach DS accordingly. Schools only seem to worry about chair throwing and the extreme side of things as it affects THEM in the here and now. Yet as his Mum I want DS to marry, make friends and have a successful adult life in social terms , not one where he feels isolated and lonely. My priorities and the school's aren't always the same.

Small behavioral changes - I'll try and give you an example of what I mean in relation to a HF child.

Knowing to respond to teacher prompts when she calls the whole class to come and look at a demonstration - Left to himself my child would only come to watch the demo if his specifc name was called.

A few seconds later the teacher would call his name. My son would look up realise he's still at his desk & feel confused as to what's happening - cue anxiety as he realises he's not doing the right thing as he rushes to join his classmates. An anxious child can't learn.

Goal - to teach him to join in with whole class instructions. He learns how and feels much more at ease and confident. His teachers & classmates are less irritated by him & his social relationships improve as a result of their warmer feeings towards him.

As the general confusion lessens, so does the anxiety and the ability to learn the school topic at hand increases. Happy child, happy teachers, happy Mum.

ABA helps you to help with the little things that overall can make such a difference to the child's quality of life. My DS has to be taught expicitly lots of minor stuff that everyone else learns implictly. Cumulatively those minor things add up.

AgnesDiPesto · 27/04/2012 14:25

ABA would do coaching for an older HF child. Sort of a bit like social stories but a lot of actual demonstrating, acting it out / practising situations and then generalising to the real situation

which is coaching an older child about whats cool / not cool conversation. Its the same approach breaking something down into small parts and teaching the appropriate response. Also directly explaining the social cues that people on spectrum miss - there was a great example on the latest Ambitious about Autism film where this adult with autism said 'I realised that if a girl talked to me, held my hand etc that meant she wanted to be my girlfriend'. before that he said girls thought they had been dating him for a month and he hadn't realised! So it can also just be someone who really understands autism pointing out to the young person what the rest of us just pick up and teaching it very directly. So in the girlfriend example the man had worked out a 'rule' for when girls were interested in him so if they did w+x+y that = z . So an ABA / social skills coach would teach directly the 'rules' of dating or conversation or whatever, which might not otherwise be apparent. These are probably not great egs but the best I could think of (only having a 5 year old)
bialystockandbloom · 27/04/2012 14:46

My ds is high functioning. He was dx with a generic ASD when he was 3.6. It was a 'borderline' diagnosis at the time. Now, at 5yo after 18 months of ABA he probably would get a dx of AS (if they still gave that dx).

He has no behavioural problems in the sense you originally meant. But he does have problems in some of ways you describe of your ds, eg social interaction and gets obsessive topics of conversation, and some anxiety. We do not do an intensive home programme any more but we do still have some hours a week of ABA (Verbal Behaviour) at home, and his TA at school is supposed to be trained in ABA methodology.

Imo you can use the principles of ABA as a teaching mechanism to help or overcome virtually any problem in behaviour.

The Schramm book is a great place to start.

Penneyanne · 27/04/2012 18:48

Wow, great examples and advice from you all. I can now see far more clearly how ABA can be used for 'far less obvious behaviours'. This is what I couldnt understand before. As you said Bochead " I look at all social interaction as behaviour and try and treat ds accordingly ". This really clarifies it for me -thanks! Your 'in class' example really typifies my ds's behaviour in class. Agnes, that link is really useful for me- any time I have looked at youtube tutorials on ABA , all I seem to find are ones of young children with quite challenging behaviours.I can see now how I could possibly do this at home to address some of ds's social awkwardness etc. Bialystock, your ds is quite like mine as regards some of his issues- you're lucky in a way that he was dx so young, ds problems didnt become apparent until he was about 8 or 9 and was dx at 10. At least you have the benefit of early intervention! I take it the TA is not great?Wink

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bialystockandbloom · 27/04/2012 19:15

There are other training courses run regularly - ABA Tutor finder is running on 19th May. I'll paste the details below. The training that bochead mentioned sound great too, I'll almost certainly attend some of those in the future!

Re TA - it's a bigger problem with the school itself, don't ask Grin

ABA Tutor Finder will be hosting a 1 day training course in London on the 19th May entitled Teaching Using the Principles of Applied Behaviour Analysis.

The course will be presented by Catherine Green MEd, BCBA and is suitable for both families and therapists wishing to further their understanding of ABA as an intervention for children on the autism spectrum. Tickets are priced at £70 when booked before 5th May with discounts offered for group bookings. Full details, including the course outline, can be found in the attached PDF document.

If you have any questions, or to book your place and arrange payment, please email [email protected]
Kind Regards

ABA Tutor Finder

W: www.abatutorfinder.com

Penneyanne · 28/04/2012 00:10

Thanks bialystock. I will look into that-sounds good !

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