Why such a big discrepancy

[littlelegsmum]

Is it really normal to have such opposite behaviours at home and school.

They have not noticed ANY of the ASD traits that we are saying.

They have showed us school work which shows that she is doing the work (and seems to understand). Although she's probably got something to prompt her at school . . yet by the time she comes home with homework, it's as if she's never been taught it?!

They didn't really explain why she was reading Year 2 books, but said they'll try her on a different range or maybe she'd "picked the wrong one up"

Because they sounded so convincing, we came away thinking we'd made a big deal over it Maybe we need to leave well alone and let her be who she is . . and if the High School see a problem, let them approach us.

They said her levels are fine in comparison to her friends and if anything she helps the other children. She's in the lowest level but the top of that group.

Maybe we are trying to look for a label for her but she doesn't need one . . Feeling very useless as she always seems like she desperately wants to do it, yet struggles so much at home.

I did ask them if they thought she could be dyslexic but they hadn't really thought about it.

On the positive side, there will be a TA who she can go to when stuck and they will have weekly meetings together. We are getting a home-school book to keep up to date with each other.

in a word - yes

what are your main concerns with your DD and have you spoken to any other professional about them?

I'm just not sure i'm going to 'push' for anything else.

Yes, we struggle, a hell of alot with her at home but isn't that just an age/hormonal thing?

I'd convinced myself I would ask why they thought being in Level 3's in sats is ok for a year 6, but nooo I just sat and nodded my head. . (She was level 2's in year 2). Maybe reading a year2 book, in year 6 is ok too . . There were 3 teachers, 2 TA's and SENco in the room all saying she's fine - I can't argue with that.

The list of concerns is huge and too many to put on here lol but maybe i'm just trying to label her. . I really don't know anymore.

Sorry, she has been referred by HV but that's based on what i've told her our life is at home. I thought she had to show signs in more than 1 place?

We are due to have her assessed privately in July, but just don't know if it's worth it.

when you say 'struggle' at home, what does that mean?

sometimes finding the reason for those times can help to minimise them - my DD is having assessments for ASD and just knowing some of the reasons for her losing it have helped us to help her...

Yes very normal. Some schools seem to think that unless a child is kicking off then everything is fine.

It probably seems ok if you have low expectations, as sadly many schools do! I wonder how many of these staff would be ok if it was one of their own children?
Level 4-5 is expected level at end of Year 6.
two levels of progress is expected in key stage 2 so a level 2 at 7 should translate into at least a level 4 at age 11.
If she has not reached level 4 then she will not be able to cope easily with the work at secondary. They don't have time to go back over the basics. Not unless in a small class with extra help.
here is some Dept of Education info on measuring progress.
The progress here is not appropriate. Especially if there is no agreed reason (dyslexia / LD etc) to explain it - and indeed even with a LD of some kind 2 levels progress is still expected.
I would go direct to the Educational Psychiatrist and ask for an assessment as progress has been inadequate. At least that way you will either get reassured by someone outside the school or the problem will be explored.
Perhaps this school think she won't be their problem soon?
I might also speak to the new school and say you are worried and would a child coming in at level 3 need extra support? They may be more prepared to support you as they are going to be picking her up soon.

Sorry didn't make it clear what I mean by struggle!

She needs constant reminders, off me about what to get ready for school

She is very unorganised and just can't seem to arrange things in order

She cannot be reasoned with

She thinks its her way or everyone else is being "mean"

She acts and talks immature and only really wearing age appropriate things as I buy them for her.

She is very gullible and believes everything she's told

Doesn't get the jist of humour/sarcasm and things are very black and white

She doesn't really understand time and the passing of time - will say she's been trying to get to sleep for ages, when it's only a matter of minutes

No real concept of money values

Constantly interrupts me when talking to people - she also does this to her longest friend but she's told me she's fine with it!

There is so much more I could write but she's been referred for assessment for aspergers. But that's based on my perseverance.

Oh there's definitely no agreement as to any other issues that would stop her being at the magic level 4. They just compare her to her classmates?!

I completely understand and agree that they've only got her another few months then it's not their problem anymore. Although I would like to point out my disappointment with a letter somehow!

I'll have a look at that link you've attached when I'm in my laptop.

The present junior school also said that there were no notes passed over from previous school to say about sen etc Tbh if there were any, I'd never find out anyway.

I've spoken with sen at previous school who tell me dd was on school action and was working in a supported group of about 5?! Why would this info not get passed over - to me it's clear there are things are being kept from dd that should be available.

I'm really not happy at all and feel like letting dd stay off on sats week as that's all they've been bothered about!!!

I'm sorry you are going through this.
Look at the SEN Code of Practice and SEN Toolkit.
You will see that you absolutely should have been told she was on school action.
I would send her in for SATS and positively encourage her to get a level 3 and not try her hardest! SATS are there to show how well the school are performing. schools like this will probably be delighted she is not there to put a 3 on the score sheet. In fact they would probably like to let the bottom set stay at home.
You could complain about all this, I would complain to the governors that you were not informed your child was on school action for a start.
Pursue the dx, but that may take a while.
I would approach the high school - ask for a meeting with the SENCO and explain about the referral, what you have just found out about school action and that the current school have not met her needs and ask what support they can put in place to try and smooth entry to high school.
You may be able to line up some extra visits, email contact e.g. so work gets sent direct to you etc. At least make the teachers aware of her needs.
I would self refer to the Ed Psych - you don't need a school referral. There will be a waiting list but you could do with a proper assessment of her educational needs asap. You may be able to get the high school to fix this up asap in Sept if you can't get seen before that.

Just occurred to me maybe the other parents of her friends are also being fobbed off - if they are lousy with one child with SEN chances are she is not the only one. Talk to the other parents, if a group of you are pissed off you could complain together. Strength in numbers and all that

Thanks for your reply.

I knew she was getting extra help and support from previous Junior school, just hadn't realised what it was called. Not sure i've got enough fight left in me to complain about that too ;)

I do think the new junior school knows about it but they are hoping i'll not ask for her records (when I work out how to do that, I will).

I've also asked present Junior school for their sen policy twice and to date I haven't received one!!

I very rarely see her friends parents as I have another child to sort out too. However (and please don't think i'm nasty for saying this) we get the feeling that the children that go there are not as lucky as dd and have lots of issues. DD has said it's a very disruptive and unsettling day, with all the problems the kids cause. She simply wants to carry on with her work. We also think their parents wouldn't necessarily question things the school do, therefore it's partly the reason dd is mixing in (educational wise)

I'm obviously going to persue the High School details and will start on that on Monday. In fact I know juniors have put her in their transition group - but thats only becuase I pushed very hard for it!

Hi and thanks for replying also

It's so bloody frustrating when we see these things everyday and the school just CBA doing anything. There is no incentive in my case but when they blatantly tell you they're 'fine' I want to stick those words where the sun doesn't shine!!!

Girls are so good at mimicking the behaviour of their peers and hiding these things well . . obviously too well. I've spent that long adjusting to how dd is that it's become everyday life now.

Can you imagine if it was the other way round and I was in denial and school were telling us that there was an issue - i'd be being called rotten in the staffroom!!

"They're fine" = "we're fine"
Or, in more depth, "Yes, your dc might well have serious issues, but thankfully none that have impacted sufficiently on my working life for me to have needed to seek outside assistance with her, nor to have made me risk the staffroom stigma of 'not coping with a child' who hasn't thrown any chairs.

Maria. . You are the first person to be able to put a smile on my face with that sad, yet completely accurate description. For that, I thank you :)

Definitely can be different at home and at school. DS1 on SA+, but mainly for physical reasons. Academically fine - which I know your DD isn't. But school do not experience any of the meltdowns that they quite often cause, in part from him being so 'contained' at school that he explodes as he leaves.
They will quite often tell me how well behaved he is, but this is a good school, and they do recognise that there are other issues. These issues do not really cause them too many problems.
Lack of organisation skills - there are 30 other children who when they are told 'get your coat' - 26 or so will get their coat - DS1 will follow as it is assumed. At home 'get your coat' - no-one to follow. Your DD is just following the crowd - maybe she's always one of the last and needs prompting, but that doesn't cause school problems. You make sure she has everything for school and is there - so not schools problem. She doesn't get things at school, she sits and inwardly explodes - then lets you take the brunt when she leaves - not schools problem.
Advice from this site many moons ago - video her behaviour at home. Ask for an assessment in her home environment.
Go with your gut instinct - if you think there is a problem, ask for advice from professionals that are trained in behavioural issues. That does not mean teachers, they can only give a personal opinion, which as maria put it so beautifully - they don't cause the teacher any problems, there is no problem.
Note on that last point - a good/experienced/caring teacher will often notice tell tale signs

OK, after yesterdays meeting with school, should I be sending a letter to clarify what DH & I understood from the meeting or is it best to leave well alone?

What are the benefits of doing so?

Who would you send it to?

It's them basically telling us DD is perfectly fine (to cut a long story short)

Maybe I should take DD's lead a little more and make it some of schools problem and give myself a break. . I'll keep her off when she's distressed at the thought of going in, as she's so over anxious it makes her feel physically sick and dizzy . . I'll also stop organising her and let her sort her own things out and if that means being late every morning so be it . . Although it's disgusting that it's the only way they'd take notice of me?! :(

I would put in writing everything that was said at your meeting and copy the letter to the teacher(s) involved and the head.

I would request to know why they think your DD has not made the recommended progress between yr 2 and yr6, esp as she had attained level 2's national average at end of KS1. You can ask the school what her levels were at the end of each academic year, they collate this info and it is passed from school to school (but you are unlikely to find any evidence of this in her academic records)

I would also request the SEN policy in this letter (presume your previous requests were verbal - consequently they can be ignored). If you don't get a copy from the school write to the governors requesting one.

The benefits are that the school will accept the letter and not write back, meaning they agree or they may dispute what you have written, either way that letter from you should go into your DD's educational file, which will start your paper trail if you require one at a later date.

To see her academic file you need to put in a request to the governors stating that 'under Statutory Instrument 2000 No.297. The Education (Pupil Information) (England) Regulations 2000 I would like to view childs educational and curricular records.

The school has to make these available within 15 working days of the request.

Hello Minx and thank you for replying. I have answered in "speech marks" ;)

Minx179Mon 30-Apr-12 00:51:38

I would put in writing everything that was said at your meeting and copy the letter to the teacher(s) involved and the head.

I would request to know why they think your DD has not made the recommended progress between yr 2 and yr6, esp as she had attained level 2's national average at end of KS1. You can ask the school what her levels were at the end of each academic year, they collate this info and it is passed from school to school (but you are unlikely to find any evidence of this in her academic records)

"I have never thought to word it this way, so thank you for pointing that out. I do actually have her levels in the ever-growing file I have, so will dig it out"

I would also request the SEN policy in this letter (presume your previous requests were verbal - consequently they can be ignored). If you don't get a copy from the school write to the governors requesting one.

"I initially emailed the school a couple of weeks ago and a few days later reminded them, by letter about the SEN policy. They've still not sent me a copy - would you now go straight to the head/governors?"

The benefits are that the school will accept the letter and not write back, meaning they agree or they may dispute what you have written, either way that letter from you should go into your DD's educational file, which will start your paper trail if you require one at a later date.

"Thank you for this. It was kind of what I was thinking and at least then, I have it recorded on file"

To see her academic file you need to put in a request to the governors stating that 'under Statutory Instrument 2000 No.297. The Education (Pupil Information) (England) Regulations 2000 I would like to view childs educational and curricular records.

The school has to make these available within 15 working days of the request.

"I'll get this done and send a copy into school with DD (in a few hours!)"

Also, will there be records in those files if previous school has had her on School Action or taught her in a different way, or is that information on record somewhere else?

You've been so helpful and I go and ask more questions, but I do appreciate it :)

Apparently so...my DS is a completely different child at school e.g strangling/kicking/punching others, rude and abusive to teachers(and children), struggles to follow rules, refuses to work/read. Yet is the complete opposite at home...kind, loving, caring if he SEES that someone has hurt themselves (not so if he can not, but once its pointed out he is), does what he is told (granted sometimes he isn't happy about it but still gets on with it), is easily misled by the little toe-rags who live in our street, will read his books in seconds, finishes his home work in minutes.

I have tried pointing this out to the non believers on many occassions but they are more interested in questioning my parenting skills, When I say he is fine at home the looks they give me are so annoying you can just imagine the voices in their heads shouting "FULLOFIT!" :)

But then I have a nephew who is the opposite! it took my sister 3 yrs of constant badgering and a new HV for someone to actually take notice. It seems that if they don't disrupt others then it goes un-noticed.

Re Sen Policy - write to the GB asking for a copy, ensure you state you have requested this from the school on xx date.

Is your schools SEN policy not online? Though even if it is you may find it is a condensed version of the full SEN policy.

Educational files don't appear to hold a great deal, though I suppose it may vary from school to school.

DS's didn't hold any academic info from primary or secondary. Ours primarily held info from Paed and OT, my letters, but not schools response. CAT test results and secondary teacher feedback forms.

Any groups your DD may have attended for SA or differentiated work for classwork would be held in the teachers planning notes, which you can't access as a parent.