Is there a diagnostic questionnaire or similar to diagnose aspergers in a 8yo girl?

[PiedWagtail]

I have been concerned on and off for years about the possibility of Aspergers in my dd, who is age 8, re poor eye contact, odd/lacking social skills, bizarre behaviour and odd phrasing/wording. She often seems to miss the point of conversations, and lives on Planet Daydream a lot of the time - although she is able at school, behaves well there, has friends and is a model pupil.

Can anyone help?

Sounds like enough concerns there for you to make an appointment for her to be seen by a child development paedetrician.

Our paed gave us the CAST to complete (childhood asperger syndrome test) I think you can prob view it on google somewhere to give you an idea

Thanks Chundle. I have printed it out. Looks good.

15 and above is indicative of AS.

Hmm - it doesn't say anywhere how to score but I have done it based on 'normal' traitds. She scores 11. What now?

My dd scored 11 too :) paed told us that was reasonably high and wrote on her diagnosis letter ADHD with AS traits. Id say worth going to your GP without her with a list of your concerns. That's what I did for my dd and we got referred to a paed

Just had a look at this, never seen it before. My HF ASD DS2 scores 29! I knew he was more severe than AS, but gosh, that's higher than I thought. I suppose because he's got a reasonable IQ and manages in a MS school, etc, (with statement) I had been thinking he wasn't so bad.

My ds scores 19 and is diagnosed as HF Aspergers. As chundle says here anything over 15 is indictative of likelihood of Aspergers.

My DS scored 32 (or 31, can't quite remember!). And yet I quite often worry that I've got it all wrong and that I'm pushing for a diagnosis for no good reason!

An example of bizarre things to say/write - dd was doing Jubilee homework - designiong a poster for a street party. At the bottom I'd suggested she write 'All welcome' so what she wrote was 'Anybody welcome - grans, cousins and stepbrothers come'

Is this bizarre, or am I being unfair???

My dd writes similar odd things! She has no explanation for it

Voila

Chundkle - how old is your dd? What treatment is she having? What made you seek help? What are her symptoms, for want of a better word?

I'm not sure if we should seek 'help' for dd or not. It's not affectng her school life, though I have had my concerns about her since she was a young toddler - on and off though, she def doesn't tick all the boxes for AS. She has a stepbrother with AS and imo both her paternal uncle and GM have AS!!

Please pm me if you'd rather.
Thanks
Jane

Very interesting, I hadn't seen that questionair before - I did it for DS (4) and got 22 - so fairly high. like someone else said - I always wonder if its just me, and he is actually fine - I guess this shows we are right to worry. - NB we are under the pead - but he wants to "wait and see".

DS (AS) scores 28 on this version and sometimes if it wasn't for his anxiety I would sometimes doubt his dx - mainly because I am so used to living with him I don't think I notice all his oddities anymore, or at least I just think of them as 'normal'.

The NAS Red Flags for Autism. DS ticked every single one apart from the Hyperactive and Tantrums. Shit. I knew he was bad, but seriously that paints a very big picture.

Hi PiedWagtail,

re your comment:-

"I'm not sure if we should seek 'help' for dd or not. It's not affectng her school life, though I have had my concerns about her since she was a young toddler - on and off though, she def doesn't tick all the boxes for AS. She has a stepbrother with AS and imo both her paternal uncle and GM have AS!!"

Given the above I think its in both your interests that your DD is further seen by a developmental paediatrician. Are you afraid of what you may be told?. You have to look at your own reasons for not wanting to investigate this further. Denial is a powerful force granted but you cannot keep dismissing your own concerns. Your concerns have not gone away.

I see a label purely as a signpost to seeking more help. a label opens doors that otherwise remain closed. She is still your lovely DD regardless of whether she is on the spectrum or otherwise.

Its not affecting her school life you write, I hope this is correct but you may well be wrong. Some of her peers may well regard your DD as "weird". Differences between herself and her peers with particular regards to problems in socialising will become more marked as as she advances through the school system and some children will become far less tolerant. How does she play and interact with her peers?. Is she actually becoming more isolated at breaktimes?. Does she have friends over, is she invited to parties?. How does she play, is she really doing imaginative play or is play actually very rigid, rule based and very structured?.

Secondary schools can be really hard too for children whose needs are not met so you need to think longer term as well.

It would not surprise me one bit if school had not noticed. Many do not. Also many teachers are simply not trained or even trained enough to recognise children with any additional support needs let alone anyone on the autistic spectrum. The children who are both quiet and compliant at school are precisely the ones who get missed and ignored in a classroom setting only for problems to erupt later.

:( Sally. I guess his HI will be contributing to him ticking some of those red flags too.

Piedwagtail

Does she have friends or just acquantainces? There are some children that DS says are his friends. They are not. They are children that he sits next to. They never invite him to their house or parties (DS doesn't invite anyone).

I have said this on another similar thread recently:

Even if your daughter did have SN, there would still be loads of good things to say about her. She will still be your lovely little girl.

If she doesn't have SN then any assessment will tell you that. They won't give a diagnosis if she doesn't meet the criteria. Then you can move on. IMO it sounds like you are concerned and this is really bothering you. I would go to the GP if I were you.

Getting an ASD dx for my clever little boy has been hugely helpful to us to understand HIM. He is still him with or without the dx but some of his little ways just didn't make sense to us...and now they do

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1459772-to-give-5yo-DD-a-script-for-talking-to-people

I agree with Atilla that looking at the future, I am very pleased that I pursued a dx where the school didn't think that he had ASD/AS. He is only in Y2 and already I can see that the other children just know the social rules and he just doesn't. He's always on the edge, not quite knowing, not quite acting the same......

Yes Ben, it certainly doesn't help his ASD with the addition of deafness. Ho hum. Anyway, he is off sick today, so we've been having a lovely time playing copying, spinning and peekaboo.

TBH, I raised it with the Paed when he was 10 months old, as he wasn't doing the right sort of things. He had been a very placid baby (lucky me!), but there were little red flags that were easier to spot as DS3 is 16 months older than him, so in a way he was a NT benchmark.

Ben10 and Attila - thank you both so much for your responses. They have been really helpful. I will ring the GP today and make an appt to go by myself and ask for a referral to a paed. How will they make a diagnosis? What will they do?
Thanks. xxx

Sorry - didn't answer your questions. Yes, dd has friends - a good but small group that she has known for years. They chat and play various games and do all the usual things. Yes, she is invited to parties and playdates with various friends.

I have noticed, though, when friends come to tea, they chat a lot more than dd, and ask me things, and tell me things about their lives and what they've been up to, whereas dd does not generally do that. No idea why.

And often if we go out for a day out, she will remember one tiny, bizarre aspect of the day and will tell people about it if they ask what we've been doing. For example - yesterday - went out for a walk by the canal as it's all flooded, so the kids could play in the puddles and splash, and see the flooding. Asked dd what she remembered best about it when we got in, and she said, 'we saw a slug'. :(

Years ago she was bought a pink fairy play castle and never touched it, never went near it. When we asked why, she said 'I don't know how to play with it.'

'I don't know how to play with it.' - I hear this all the time.

The diagnostic process differs by area.

Some areas use CAMHS Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services. I understand that they use Clinical Pyschologists.

Our area uses a Multi-disciplinary Assessment approach. You get referred to a Developmental Paediatrician who is the lead in the assessment. Our paed conducted a lengthy structured interview with us while observing DS "playing". We and the school both completed questionnaires. He was assessed by Occupational Therapy and Speech and Language Therapy. Then they all met for a panel meeting to discuss all of the children on the list for the panel for that month. We got a call from the paed to confirm the diagnosis and we are going to see the paed tomorrow to go through it all.

This might be interesting to you...

When I went to the GP, I took a list of all of my concerns/observations which was then sent on to the paed prior to our appointment.

In this part of Essex the CDC (Child Development centre) is used. It all takes time (lots and lots) and you can wait months on end to receive an appointment (during school time). You need patience by the bucketload. Also writing on here helps massively. Take a list of concerns and film your DD at home playing for the paediatrician to view if at all possible. Keep a diary too.

I would also try and find out from school how she is really doing in there; she may well be finding the social unwritten rules side of it particularly difficult. If your DD is not known to the SENCO (special needs coordinator) at school I would ask to see this person asap.

From the link that Ben10 kindly posted (thanks for that):-
"It cannot be stressed enough that diagnosis and full assessment of needs cannot be carried out by following a checklist. Proper assessment takes time and detailed evaluation is necessary to enable a clinician to systematically collect information which not only provides a diagnostic label, but more importantly, a detailed profile of the person".

Amen to that.

Thanks again both. Have made an appt with GP on Weds and will take notes and completed CAST questionnaire. Will let you know how i get on. :(