Crisis point with school: wwyd?

[bialystockandbloom]

Background:

DS 5yo HFA. In mainstream school. After a year-long fight with the LA we finally won a Statement which provides ABA-trained TA support.

We chose the school originally (pre-statement) because they seemed supportive of us taking in our ABA tutors. They agreed to this, and even said they'd employ them as TAs. And because they prided themselves on being particularly clued up and supportive about ASD. They have a part-time member of staff who works as ASD support coordinator.

Great, we thought.

As soon as we put in our Appeal last autumn they suddenly changed - wouldn't employ our tutors, and the 'ASD support coordinator' was standing against us as a witness for the LA.

After two terms in Reception they still had not put the support outlined in his statement in place. They very hurriedly found a TA at Easter when I wrote to the head of childrens services at the LA (thanks MN SN board!).

I was then called to the see the headmaster, who basically told me (in veiled way of course) that they will continue to take their lead from their ASD support person, not our ABA team despite this being in the statement. They are subtly doing everything they can to shut out our tutor who continues to go in one day a week.

This ASD support staff is dangerously blinkered and narrow-minded about ABA (eg has told me "ABA doesn't work on communication" ). She obstructs everything, and goes behind our tutors back with inconsistent advice to the class teacher. I can't go into too much detail, just in case...

It doesn't help that she is a patronising detestable twat who parades herself as the 'autism guru'

The very reason we thought this was the best school for ds has turned out to be the opposite.

Since starting school ds's anxiety, compliance, social development, and play skills have noticably deteriorated.

We have a TAC meeting next week. Any advice?

All we want is a school who want to work with us in ds's best interests, using our expert team, using an approach (ABA-very-very-lite) which is proven to be successful, and which we won a very hard-fought battle with the LA to get.

Btw I have phoned a couple of local schools - they are all full, with big waiting lists.

Sorry that was so long

Email the head to go over his "round the houses way of saying they wont use your tutor" to make sure you understood the meeting and heard right (which of course you did)

Then hit the LA (find the top not the officer) and tell them that you feel the statement is not being implemented and your reasons for it. Attach the heads reply as confirmation and cc in the head at the same time. Ask for a phone call to discuss further.

Then sit back......................

I would consider having the annual review brought forward, having a ABA trained TA needs to be specified, in so much as does your statement say ABA trained TA or a TA trained in ABA who will apply ABA techniques as directed by XYZ. If it is the first and the TA has had ABA training then the school are compliant whether they are using ABA or not.

Thanks for replies.

squid the statement basically says TAs to receive 10 days ABA training per year, with ongoing supervision and targets agreed between all concerned (school and ABA team). After my letter to the LA and then to the HT they have finally complied with that, and we had our first training session last week.

What I am worried about is that there seems to be a conflict between (in simple terms) 'our' approach and 'theirs'. And despite what it says in our statement they will always have control over what happens at school, because all asd staff report to the ASD support coordinator, who (as the HT reinforced to me) they fully back.

I am doubly worried about what happens when the statement finishes - it's bad enough now.

I suppose my question is: is there any way we can move forward and get this school to work with us, or should we look elsewhere?

zzzz how did you know that a different school would be any better?

I feel like a fool - I really thought this school was the best one for ds, and held out until the last possible minute to get it named in our statement. I should've heeded the warning signs then, as they took 5 weeks to confirm to us that they had space

Have lost confidence in my ability to judge now - what should I look for in a school?

I suppose that you can not get this school to work with you as you have lost all trust because of the way they have behaved so far. Even at the TAC if the agree to certain changes can you allow them to have another term wasted. Your statement is a conflict of interests, you have ABA but you have a school employed TA and a HT with a firm viewpoint. The school may have been open to begin with believing they would have no bill but the LEA have been very clever.
As long as TA has training and targets are being discussed the the statement is being carried out, even if no targets are agreed as they have to be joint.
You are not a fool you have just been carefully lied to.

I fear you are right

Leaves us buggered though - we would need to urgently find a school which would happily accept ABA. I think this is the problem isn't it. And one that has space - all decent schools in my area hugely oversubscribed!

We turned down a place at lovely independent pre-prep school - bet they would've been more willing to work with us. Kicking myself now.

What about montessori / steiner schools? Any around?
We looked for a school with no ASD expertise on the grounds they would then (hopefully) leave the ABA team to get on with it. Which has happened. We deliberately avoided the ones which claimed great expertise.

I would try and get the Statement changed to give control to you. Our statement wording reads "The local authority will provide funding for a fulltime (35 hour per week. 48 weeks per year) ABA programme and access to a school setting'.

Our LA wanted to play silly buggers and 'put the ABA out to tender' (even though we had worked with a consultancy for a year and there were no others within miles). We argued the wording said the LA's duty was to fund the ABA support not to organise it. We said that we wanted to organise it ourselves. Their only duty was to pay and provide a school setting. The school do not employ the ABA support, we do. In theory we could change providers if we wanted to. There are meetings with school etc but ABA set DS programme in school and decide what he should / should not access. The idea is over time school staff will be trained up if DS is able to transfer to less expert staff in future.

Of course LA then refused to accept invoices from ABA as we are the employer and make us copy and paste the ABA invoice onto out letterhead and send it, but then they are total twats

I would try and get out of using the staff in any school. There are down sides to being the employer, if DS ABA tutor is ill then he cannot go to school, but as he gets more than FT education then school is relaxed about that.

What about if you ask for a specific school to be named on the statement - even if the school is technically full with a waiting list your child could still go as an excepted pupil, infant class size rules do not apply to Statemented children. Of course then you will have to find a HT happy to accept a 31st pupil with extra needs.

Does your ABA provider work in any other schools? A school that has ABA before can be more open to the idea.

You've hit on the central issue for all parents of statemented kids Bialy, in that what you have found is that a statement means nothing if you have a school who decide to be obstructive.

You have to decide whether you waster precious energy on winning them round or cutting your losses and going elsewhere.

Your ASD support person is telling you factually incorrect thingsa based on nothing more than prejudice. Ask her where her evidence is for such an assertion for a start,. telling her you want to document her comments.

As someone who has had to promite and 'sell' ABA to many many different people at all levels, I would say to you that all that matters is that you find people who are willing to give new things a go, work with you and not against you and who have no pre-determined agenda.

My most successful collaborations have been with people who hadn't a clue what ABA is but who put the child's needs waaaaay above their own.

moondog and agnes you have both hit the nail on the head - indeed our consultant said ages ago it is better to find a school who don't proclaim their expertise, as they'd be more willing to work with us with no preconceptions and prejudice about a method which we know to work. why tf didn't I listen

Though to be fair to the school, the class teacher and senco at least seemed pretty open to it at first, and the (lovely) class teacher is still open-minded, and came to the training last week. But she has some reservations, and I suppose it can in some cases appear to the uninitiated that ABA can be "hardcore" - eg she was a bit alarmed that our tutor seemed to be causing ds "distress" by insisting he flush the loo (a battleground atm), without understanding what the tutor was doing. (Resulting in the days when he was unsupported by a tutor, the teacher/assistant basically let him go to the loo without flushing or he didn't go all day. Which has resulted in real regression to the extent that he is v v anxious about using public loos (something we haven't seen for a year), and I even had to work to pair up our loo at home again. They don't realise the knock-on effect that inconsistency has on our family life - and how confusing it is to poor ds.

Anyway.

You are right. I think this is a losing battle.

Sigh.

My most successful collaborations have been with people who hadn't a clue what ABA is but who put the child's needs waaaaay above their own.

^^ That is all I want. Not so hard, surely.

And there was I thinking I could relax for a bit after we won our statement. Doh.

Yes I laughed at that too. Ffs.

My heart sinks when I come across people who think they know it all and have nothing to learn (and I fully and openly admit that was my kneejerk reaction when I heard about ABA many years ago. I recall saying something like 'Hmm, sounds like another fad'.)

The best people I work with are as I said, people who make no assumptions but have a genuine interest and curiosity and a sort of detective quality in them which makes finding solutions to problems and obstacles something they enjoy.

I can think of one woman in particular who is a middle aged classroom assistant-vety modest and shy but who does the msot amazing work and who would sweep many teachers under the carpet. She is fantastic-so much so that I have names her (and other superstars) as co-authors on a presentation I am giving in the States next month.

When I went for my 1st job after finishing my degree as a support worker for people with LD i nervously told the interviewer that I had no experience in this field whatsoever. He beamed at me delightedly and told me that was what he wanted. Now I understand why.

The SEN culture is deeply entrenched and many people have a deeply vested interest in ensuring it remains as chaotic, amateur, bureacratic and inefficient as it has been for decades. I sense however that it is reaching the end of its shelf life.

You need to decide what the priority is a good statement with the opportunity to name a new placement or a good school and then hope they will implement the statement you have. The biggest problem you have is a TA with ABA training is different to ABA tutor applying to be a TA and this could cause problems at any placement. What you have in your favour is the LEA have agreed that your child benefits ABA but this needs to be better implemented and you have two terms of evidence that the current statement is not only been undermined but has caused distress to your child.

Bialy, I'm afraid I know exactly what you are going through.

We had chosen a school for DS. Excellent reputation for inclusion. Social skills groups regularly, children accepting, SENCO knew about ABA and had sensible approach, good experienced class teacher etc etc.

We never put him in it in the end. At the last minute the HT and SENCO became tribunal witnesses against us, HT turned hostile and stated that she woukd only follow LA approach and that even if we had everything in the statement it was her opinion that DS didn't need it, that we should chose either state provision or private and not mix and match.

She got what she wanted I suspect which is that we refused to put DS in there until after the tribunal and then subsequently never.

We could never win. The LA were too powerful an influence on the school. Worse still, the HT started to tell the governors all kinds of nonsense about me which would sabotage not only ds' education but his siblings.

At the last minute I requested changes to part 4, and was give just 3 weeks to find an alternative placement. I did find a Young new HT of a school that wasn't so great Ofsted-wise before her placement. The incredible thing about her is that she was an ABA tutor whilst syudying her degree. I didn't have to persuade her of the rationale or effectiveness which for the first time had me lost for words.

She was open and interested but confused as to how ABA would fit into a mainstream setting (I suspect her knowledge was both out of date and limited to EIBI). She was open to considering what we wanted.

We decided not to place DS there.

Our reasons are that we believed as a new and young HT she woukd be pressured by the LA to use her knowledge of ABA against us during the tribunal. In the end we not only changed schools but LA. The reputation (accurate or otherwise) would follow us school to school. In fact, it appears to have followed us across counties as it is.

I honestly don't know what to recommend you do. In searching for schools our criteria suddenly had to become very simple and reduced to 'where will he not be harmed?'. If he can be safe and understood then his learning, at least in the early years can be done outside of this. Impressively though having had the ABA input so far has meant that he really is accessing much of the education provided there, but that was a risk. The staff really are experts at what they do. However I know he wouldn't have even been allowed over the threshold had he not had the significant amount of ABA that he has.

I suppose what I am trying to say is you might have to be even more creative in your solution-finding, but don't flog a dead horse.

Bialy, I'm afraid I know exactly what you are going through.

We had chosen a school for DS. Excellent reputation for inclusion. Social skills groups regularly, children accepting, SENCO knew about ABA and had sensible approach, good experienced class teacher etc etc.

We never put him in it in the end. At the last minute the HT and SENCO became tribunal witnesses against us, HT turned hostile and stated that she woukd only follow LA approach and that even if we had everything in the statement it was her opinion that DS didn't need it, that we should chose either state provision or private and not mix and match.

She got what she wanted I suspect which is that we refused to put DS in there until after the tribunal and then subsequently never.

We could never win. The LA were too powerful an influence on the school. Worse still, the HT started to tell the governors all kinds of nonsense about me which would sabotage not only ds' education but his siblings.

At the last minute I requested changes to part 4, and was give just 3 weeks to find an alternative placement. I did find a Young new HT of a school that wasn't so great Ofsted-wise before her placement. The incredible thing about her is that she was an ABA tutor whilst syudying her degree. I didn't have to persuade her of the rationale or effectiveness which for the first time had me lost for words.

She was open and interested but confused as to how ABA would fit into a mainstream setting (I suspect her knowledge was both out of date and limited to EIBI). She was open to considering what we wanted.

We decided not to place DS there.

Our reasons are that we believed as a new and young HT she woukd be pressured by the LA to use her knowledge of ABA against us during the tribunal. In the end we not only changed schools but LA. The reputation (accurate or otherwise) would follow us school to school. In fact, it appears to have followed us across counties as it is.

I honestly don't know what to recommend you do. In searching for schools our criteria suddenly had to become very simple and reduced to 'where will he not be harmed?'. If he can be safe and understood then his learning, at least in the early years can be done outside of this. Impressively though having had the ABA input so far has meant that he really is accessing much of the education provided there, but that was a risk. The staff really are experts at what they do. However I know he wouldn't have even been allowed over the threshold had he not had the significant amount of ABA that he has.

I suppose what I am trying to say is you might have to be even more creative in your solution-finding, but don't flog a dead horse.

Thank you for all the new replies.

star I knew there was something going on with you but had a bit of a break from MN recently so wasn't sure of the latest situation with you. Had no idea you had such a crap time with schools (thought it was just the LA who were being such arseholes (which leads to schools not cooperating too of course)).

Tbh I think our statement is as good as we can get it. Ds doesn't actually really need intensive ABA input - this was agreed by all concerned including our own consultant, EP and SALT - but it was overwhelmingly evident that he responds well to the approach, so we asked for a 'light' version (ie all concerned working to clear targets, continuing abc and other data, using positive reinforcement methods). The LA knew they would be overruled at tribunal if they simply refused this on no grounds whatsoever, so agreed it before the tribunal (it also wouldn't cost them much), as long as we accepted that the support would gradually fade (which we do).

So I think the key is to find the dream school (like agnes's)which lets us use the expertise we can bring. But perhaps that dream school just doesn't exist for us?? Sounds like you got close to it star but even then, your instincts were probably right that even they would at some point be nobbled by the LA.

Flipping nightmare.

Even if (a big if) I managed to get the wording of the statement changed to give control to us (I think this is highly unlikely if not impossible), this school appears to now be so 'against' us I don't think it can ever work.

Thanks everyone. This has been really useful, and I realise I must indeed think a bit more creatively.