Can my AS son be 'Gifted and Talented'?

[chrisolisam]

My 13 year old son is doing very well at secondary school despite a lack of social skills (with AS). He has been assessed by the Specialist Dyslexia Teacher who thinks he is dyslexic mainly because of his processing skills. DS reckons that he is equally skilled if not better than some of the children who have been labelled as 'gifted and talented' but is being held back because he is not quick at reading and writing despite knowing the answers. My question is - are the gifted and talented children decided on by the CATS examinations? If so I think I ought to question this as he is feeling held back by not being able to take part in the activities that the G&T children have been doing, and is starting to refuse to take part in any specialist events he is requested to do like the 'Maths challenge' because he is too slow. I personally do not hold much store by the G&T label, but it is obviously bothering him. Thoughts or information would be most welcome.

Yes he can be SEN and Gin and Tonic. Each school will assess what is G&T differently. The CATs scores are some indicator but more likely it will be two or more subjects identifying the same child. Maths challenge is a problem because they don't allow readers and scribes as I discovered when one of my very profoundly dyslexic pupils who is G&T (but not on the list because it would stress her completely) and the brightest on the non verbal cATS in the whole year group, couldn't complete it due to her dyslexia. The teachers asked whoever the organising body is but no to access arrangements which pissed us all off because she is a whizz at maths.

It may be that your son is acknowledged as being bright but you have to be careful who you put forward for G&T because they have to be able to cope with lots of things and quite often the G&T enrichment tasks are very open ended, collaborative and rely on good social skills. It used to be 'your G&T - here's more work to do' and then this overburdened students so things are changing so it means less writing etc. I know in my last school, those that did the maths challenge weren't G&T - they were just in the top couple of sets of maths. G&T is actually a very small population of any school. I can honestly say that in 14 years of mainstream teaching I've only directly taught around 10 students that were genuinely 'gifted' and out of that 2 had major dyslexia.
I think that if your son is being asked to do 'extra' then he needs the support there to enable him to achieve which means reader and scribe. Can I ask - how does he know the other students are labled as G&T - is this really something that is trumpeted or is it his perception. There are always children on a G&T list that you think 'what??????' and actually a lot of schools are moving away from it all as all students have indivdiual talents.

Funny. We are having the same experience with our AS DS (12) Though I think that his processing is more Dyspraxic, as I feel his brain moves much faster than he can write. They've said that he is in the top sets for everything bar Maths and Science. They feel that this is probably because of Autumn test results. They are going to re-evaluate this. What the Sec Sch did say about the CATS tests were that they didn't subscribe to them as they felt that they weren't a true reflection of the individual child's abilities.

Dd1 has autism and has been on gifted and talented since year 1. She's classed as g&t in English, maths and art.

Thanks Flyingmum, it is a very good point that being labelled as G&T may well stress him, but he has complained about the injustice for quite a while and with him refusing to do the Maths Challenge (although from what you say, this is probably a good thing) I am getting the vibes that he feels like 'why should I try'. He knows those who are on the gifted and talented list as they have been visiting museums, meeting special people who come in to school and even had a trip up to Edinburgh recently, all things that he would have loved to have done.

The only reason I am thinking of pursuing this is that I feel that he is being demotivated - I do not know whether he would be labelled as G&T if he did not have his processing difficulties but with AS he says as he sees and I believe that he thinks he is as capable as those who are so labelled, he gets the top grades when given enough time doing homework or classwork but cannot get them in an examination environment. I take your point - these labels are not necessary really, but with the social problems he has the way he gets to enjoy school is by feeling that he is doing well academically. He frets a lot over his homework and takes a long time doing it, so he would not be able to take on much more work if that was part of G&T.

Ho hum, a conumdrum methinks!

Thanks Sallybear and lisad123, I know that my DS had CATS tests in Year 7, but I don't know how he did, however he seems convinced that G&T pupils are based on the results of these, I will need to find out whether this is the case. Don't want to be a pushy mum, but like you Sallybear my DS in top sets for all bar the languages. I have always told my children that I am proud of them for all the work they do and the effort they put into it, but if I don't fight for recognition from the school, even if it is not G&T, but some kind of verbal acceptance to the child that he is doing well I feel I would be failing him.

My three are all gifted, and two of them also have sn (one has cerebral palsy and one has ADHD with some aspie traits and phobias and anxieties). They each have an IPP for their 'gifted' stuff, and two have IPPs for their additional needs.

I think a blanket programme for kids who happen to be 'gifted' is possibly as daft as a blanket programme for those happen to have sn, tbh. Each kid is different and their education should be tailored accordingly. So his strengths should be catered for as well as his difficulties....

Has he been assessed by ed psych recently? Ever? Sat a wechsler or wiat test?

You can google 'twice exceptional' - there's loads of resources and I think nagc have got a lot about autism.

Hi madwomanintheattic, I do not know what an IPP is - DS had an IEP in junior school but his secondary seems to think only those who have been statemented should get an IEP. You are quite right that a blanket programme for gifted children is daft, and I personally do not like the labelling, but given that it is happening my son is upset about it. He was assessed by the ed psych at CAMHS when he was diagnosed about 2 years ago, and then dropped like a red hot brick, so am only now learning that AS comes with co-morbidities and that I need to get help for him as and when these come to the fore.

Wechsler or wiat tests I have never heard of, will have to google them, aswell as the 'twice exceptional' - thanks so much!

Ipp is the same as an iep, essentially. Different schools call them diff things. Have seen Ieps for kids on school action or sa+, but not sure how common this is...

Did the ep do a full range of testing, or just observe in setting?

Sorry, not in setting, at camhs, missed that. Do you know what assessment they did? Was it just solely for ASD dx?

Hi, I was also going to recommend doing a google on "twice exceptional". You will probably find that your school has a G&T policy that you can read - our school has an on-line one that you can view on the website. My son is G&T and dyslexic and did not do well in his CATS tests but he has had a proper individual IQ test (more reliable) where the scores were much higher (no reading involved). If you look at school G&T policies, they usually use quite a wide range of criteria for getting the kids on the list, not just CATS.... teacher recommendation, good SATS, gifted checklists, parent recommendation etc. Our school also has a G&T co-ordinator. You could also get in touch with the NAGC who have a website and information sheets.

Yes, he was assessed at CAMHS, as far as I know he was only assessed for ASD as I put it forward as my suspicion that he had it. Am wondering now whether I ought to get back in touch with them to see if they check for other co-morbid conditions aswell, it was not something that passed my mind at the time.

I have tried to contact the G&T co-ordinator today but had to leave a message, so goodness knows how long it will take to get a reply. Spoke to DS today and he said that if he was identified as G&T he would do any extra work as he just wants to prove he is as good as the others. The teachers have all said how hard he works and he is in the top few of the classes they teach, so will see what G&T co-ordinator has to say.

Will also google NAGC, didn't know they existed, thanks again. So grateful to find out all these things from you all which would have taken me ages to find out on my own...

Hoagies is another good website, and from memory has twice exceptional stuff, too.

It depends what school uses to list kids tbh. Formal testing will obv give you a definitive answer, but it's unlikely that school will pay for the academic testing through ed psych, as he is doing fine at school despite Asd. Some people do choose to pay for private testing if they feel their child is missing something from schooling, but it's a very personal choice.

Difficult to say what you or he would get out of a definitive label, but if he is capable of the extension work at school, then they should be providing it - ensuring he meets his individual potential, rather than preventing him from reaching his academic potential because of his asd, iykwim...

(at one point dd2 was prevented from accessing the regional gifted programme because of her handwriting. She has cerebral palsy and uses a laptop. Go figure)

Part of my son's assessment for ASD included a full IQ test. He has dyslexia rather than ASD but has many ASD traits. Not letting children take part in the maths challenge or accessing the gifted programme would surely amount to discrimination. Junior school certainly only thought that G&T meant obvious high achievement in academic subjects but secondary are more enlightened. History is littered with gifted people with disabilities - Einstein and Steven Hawkins being good examples. Makes me laugh to think that Einstein wouldn't have got onto the gifted programme!

Yy, and Steven hawking would have been excluded for his handwriting too....

You are allowed extra time for maths challenge, at least I think ds 16 yr11 was this year. He is on register for SLD but after his last assesment was given extra 25% time for maths and 10% for written exams. He is gets invited to lots of the g&t stuff, but not sure what subjects as it seems to change every year and we don't get officially told. We just get a letter home saying ds or dd is invited to this or that event.