Does having friends mean you can't be ASD?

[bochead]

DS aged 7 has always managed to make a few friends therefore he can't be ASD.

Is this true or not?

This is a serious question from a Mum who is sicked & tired of being sick & tired of the sen struggle.

DS2 had a lovely friend when he was 6 and 7. He's definitely HF ASD.

Dd3 has some friends and she has a dx of ASD.

I think it depends on what the relationship is like. At her old school she had a "friend" but it was just a.power struggle every day. She never asked to see her in the hols or after she left the school. Not a friendship in my book but the school always said they were friends.

At her new school all her friends have various SN's, they are a lovely bunch and really tolerant of each other.

She has one friend outside school who she has known since she was 2 they get on really well and we have even been on holiday with the family. The friend has fantastic understanding and without being told gets that Dd3 is different to her other friends, she tolerates playing the same games over and over again and even explains jokes to her.

As far as Nt friends go, Dd3 is very different to Dd2 who moves around in a pack and never does anything unless she has a friend to do it with her.

Hope some of that makes sense, i think friendship is open to interpretation.

Good luck and keep fighting for you Ds.

Ds's closest friends are always a bit "odd", or seem to have a few issues themselves (I'm convinced his best friend has ADHD for example). I'm always frankly pretty shocked at how tolerant his friends are (not sure I'd have been friends with someone who was always storming off for example).

Ds 17 has made his first friend since he started at his new school. The staff there help it along somewhat and much of it centres on shared interests and the fact they giggle a lot.
Dd 9 has a group of friends and a best friend, she does find it very stressful though and needs her space quite often.

My ds1 always had relationship with his peers, mainly due to the fact he was full of football knowledge. For him it was routine at school he would chat to xxxx, but once out of school he could walk past them as if he had never seen them before in his life. This was the same for karate, swimming etc. he has friends in his own way and they seem to except the way he is. He is in secondary now and it is still the same.

Yes, DS's friend was also a bit quirky, but was still his friend. It did fizzle out though, as his friend matured and his social interactions became more complex.

I work in SS for children with autism.. and my son has autism... and there are many many friendships :)

They may not be quite as 'typical' children.. for example my son would tell you he had LOTS of friends. He doesn't..but other kids will say hi to him, and those who are similar to him chat their obsessions while he chats his..and they are happy.. they are nothing like the mainstream children's friendships, but they do like eachother. The children in my class are severely autistic (mostly non verbal with severe LDs) and still some are obviously attached to others.. they trot around the playground after eachother and are obviously bewildered if someone is not at school.
I think friendships can exist in many forms and who are we to say what makes a 'real' friendship?

With DS his friends (2 now) are definately on the spectrum somewhere and livewires to boot.

That said one isnt going to move to his next school and DS blatantly said "hes not my friend anymore as I wont see him" he was rather matter of fact about it which took me back as he really gets on well with him. I think it depends on a whole how they handle relationships, communication etc. you cant just rule out ASD because he has a friends.

My Ds1 is being investigated if that's the word for a possible autistic spectrum disorder. Although his school reports he has no friends and I know that's not true. He doesn't have masses of friends, but he does have some; they ring him up to see if he is going to a club, or come round to play with him so I think they really are his friends, yes.

OTOH he is certainly not especially good in some social situations and never has been; he also sometimes seems to misjudge how much of a friend someone is and how close to be to them; these seem to me to be autistic traits.

dd1 is 7, and has severe ASD. she has a friend at school - in as much as they seek each other out to work with (in pairs exercises), 'play' together (structured playing, but they choose to do it with each other rather than anyone else), and they are both anxious if the other is missing (in more than an ASD routine way - worried more that the other is ok, rather than about the routine being broken, iyswim)

so, while neither has a great grasp of the world, they have the important bits of friendshp, imo - they like each other, and gravitate together, and prefer to spend time with each other than not.

dd1 is atypically sociable though, and has never really avoided social contact at all (the rverse - she seeks it out). what is new is that this friendship is with a peer (well, he's 10, so close enough)

Boch, I'd love to get our kids together one day. They seem like peas in a pod.

When I analyse things properly I can see DS has some very severe needs and difficulties but sometimes, especially when he is in the right environment I think 'oh he'll be fine, let's get off'!

DS failed ADOS (if a diagnosis of ADOS is a "pass" lol!) based on this yesterday

I don't quite get it as he needs a 1:1 at lunchtimes to support him in the playground? I can't put him in a holiday playscheme, use a regular childminder & playdates are incredibly structured etc.

Gutted & feeling utterly despondant as in real terms it means his next annual review will be I know night follows day, despite the fancy wording of the SENCop. I just want to get off the carousel & return to work iykim.

Positive next steps anyone?

sorry - his next annual review will be followed by Tribunal to retain appropriate support (eg autism trained TA).

Wot? Just on that?

So people with ASD can't have friends now?

What about those that get married ffs?

Was that REALLY the ADOS?

Research the qualifications of the person who administered the ADOS. I was surprised to find that in a couple of the special schools I looked at a number of TAs were trained in administering the ADOS.

No disrespect to TAs but it made me think that the ADOS was little more than a crude tool.

Ds is currently being assessed for ASD. School noted that although he is sociable with peers and adults, it is at a superficial level. I think that?s probably right . He likes to talk about his interests and at first he is interested in what others say but he gets tired of listening easily and he lacks the free ability to banter and mess around that other 10 year olds have. He tries to ?get things? and laughs when he thinks hes expected to but some stuff goes over his head. He has had the ADOS test recently and not sure of the scores yet in particular areas, but I would be very wary of someone picking up on one particular aspect of the test and deciding the outcome on it.

At the ADOS I was asked questions about the nature of his friendships as well as having made written notes which included details on this . The school had provided feedback as well as the EP . All of these combined with the ADOS results will presumably contribute to the outcome. DS isn?t an obvious case. He has got to 10 without a diagnosis . All previous school reports start with ?DS is a very sociable , friendly and popular boy? It took an experienced teacher to look beneath the surface and see the level of his friendships. I guess he needed to be a bit older also for someone to detect it.

Were they saying no ASD then because he ?passed? the ADOS? Are they not taking any of your /schools observations into consideration?

He scored asd on the direct test bit - I screwed up

Basically if I'd lied and said he has no friends he'd have walked out with a diagnosis yesterday. (face palm!)

This was a tertiary assessment that I went head to head with the PCT to get. He did one last year with the local team & failed -that time they said it was he can make eye contact & because of "other issues" (eg last school said I'm a crap Mum and his behavior is all down to me). Apparently the test was "clinically borderline that time" so the utterly useless tag "social communication disorder with autistic traits" was applied.

I'd be long past caring if the implications weren't so terribly detrimental in terms of retaining the school support I fought so hard for! If statements and support were really based on need not diagnosis it wouldn't matter a jot.

I'm not the type to give up and roll over iykwim, but this has me unable to visualise any outcome other than homeschooling, or another Tribunal fight (complete with all the character assinations etc that entails) just as soon as his current statement runs out.

Bleurgh - and a pox on all LEA houses! I'm fed up

Boch, how did you screw up? Because you didn't know how to play the system?

That's just ridiculous.

If you think they had misinformation then write to them clarifying. There is nothing wrong with 'reflecting' on things and then setting the record straight. You are a mere parent after all and the process is stressful and confusing.

Btw, I'm not suggesting you lie about the friendships, but just provide more context, perhaps include the view of someone else too. Maybe even a parent of one of his 'friends'.

Star - you did make me chuckle -my first thought when they fed back yesterday was that DS wouldn't be here if his Dad hadn't befriended me (I think I may even have pulled a catsbum face but I managed to bite my tongue).

They did say they want to come into school & observe - is that a good thing? (He spent lunchtime in tears as no TA provided today)

I also got given yet another Conners Questionaire (this' be the 4th time I've filled one in). Is this bog standard?

Sounds like they're not certain then if they are seeking further information.

Sounds like the results are far from conclusive so research the friendship stuff, get other opinions and submit further information on the topic in writing. Quote research if you have it.

My son has/has had friends, the schools report for the paed even said hes popular! he still got an overwhelming DX of ASD.

I have to say though that the older he gets the harder he seems to find maintaining friendships, as someone said upthread the friendships get more complex and my son struggles to keep up wih it.

Can I ask what is ADOS? is it a new thing or something id know by another name?

My DS had a school observation also as well as the clinician having a long chat with his teacher. It should be good in your DS's case especially if he/she observes at lunchtime. In my case DS was observed in the classroom and then outside during unstructured playtime where he probably wandered about inspecting plant life as he does rather than join in with various games, He told me that she asked him what he was doing so I know he was doing some wandering

Amber - the ADOS is whats usually used as the standard tool for diagnosing autism . I think its stands for Autism Diagnostic Observation something". It lasts about an hour and a professional gets a child to do various tasks such as answering questions about love and marriage, make up a story from toy figures , play a game with someone etc. There is a cut off score , ASD above and no ASD below. However I was told that its just one part of the whole multi disciplinary assessment and cant be viewed in isolation