challenging behaviour

[Jimjams]

Just been to a really interesting seminar run by spectrum- an ASD charity that runs residential homes for adults and has a small ASD school (similar to treehouse I think).

One of the talks was on challening behaviour- and was really interesting. He talked about the importance of reinforcing positive behaviour and not punishing bad behaviour. Also talked about the purpose of behaviour and how it is communication.

Anyway one really interesting thing he said was that if you have an ASD kid - it is really important to "do your stuff first, kids stuff second" (even if your stuff lasts literally 5 seconds). He went on to talk about how with an NT child you let them lead and you give give give because you know that in the future you are likely to get something back. He used a funny example of saying "lets go into the garden to play cricket". then your leg catches fire. The NT kid would worry about your leg, the ASD child would be saying "but you said we could play cricket". So from the beginning do your stuff first. It kind of made sense when he said it.

He gave lots of real life examples of challenging behaviour that they had had to deal with and get round. And it struck me that if you can find a professional who really really understands autism then you can get so much help from them. They understand the reasons behind the behavaiour and have the expertise to draw up programmes to deal with this. So if you get stuck on something tricky then its really worth trying to search someone out. Our autism outreach team are very good as well (they were there tonight) so for school age children they may be worth trying if someone was struggling.

glad you got something positive out of it jimjams

I think my ds may have aspergers

You've mentioned that before anais. It sounds as if you are doing all the right stuff for him anyway. Would you want an official dx, or are you just happy suspecting iyswim?

You've mentioned that before anais. It sounds as if you are doing all the right stuff for him anyway. Would you want an official dx, or are you just happy suspecting iyswim?

I hope you are still there jimjams!
The bit about the cricket is JUST like what REALLY happened to my husband on friday.

He drilled through a power cable in the kitchen and luckily only got a minor shock- all the power went and ds1 and 2 came down moaning as they were both playing their own playstations ( they have one each and are currently playing DIGIMON ...again 1 each as they cannot 'share' ...and sometimes are on the same bit of the game-separately-it's quite funny really!)
I was suprised how little ds2 was 'squawking' and not suprised how 'unsympathetic' he was about dh having had the shock...but ofcourse 'still-in- denial' dh did take this very personally....so ended up saying "i could have died"....

Then the best bit was when later the power was restored and ds2 discovered 'to his horror' that not only had his playing been interupted without warning ...but i think he expected it to go back to exactly where he was....ofcourse it didn't!

This is when dh 'lost' it and started getting cross (the after-shock of the shock had set in) ...i was then having to calm ds2 and dh down AND.... ds1 'kindly' imforming ds2 that 'it's only a game,dad could of died'....ds2 then starts screeching that 'it's not just a game'....it took a good 30 mins of reminding ds2 that he was 'great' at the playstation and had'saved' most of the game so would not take long to get back to his 'place'

Finally, the next day ds1 was trying to persuade ds2 to go out with me...i heard him saying 'there might be more circuit failure'...trying to make ds2 decide to go out rather than risk an 'interuption' - amazing how ds1 doesn't 'lie' as such...but can certainly be 'devious'!!!

lol mrsF I think you would have really enjoyed the talk. The guy who gave it was really very good- and clearly really really really understood autism. He was saying about time out and how the child thinks "oh great I can be on my own" which is something I know Davros always says. He had a room of 60 odd people laughing their way through the talk- but also he taught us a lot.

Oh, did I? I think I'm going to have to go for a dx - I am finding everything really tough atm

yep! Timeout in our house is when i make ds1 stand in the kitchen whilst i do my 'talk about ironing' ...it is the best 'trigger' to remid him he's 'gone too far'!

The other day had the 'best' examople of his literal thinking/poor understanding of facial expressions yet....I got cross because i'd asked him once too many times to get dressed for school which he normally manages if i layer his clothes. Anyhow i 'shouted' his name then gave him a real hard stare (paddington bear style IYKWIM!!)

Anyhow ds1 stared back and was motionless....he then said "WHAT? Don't just stare at me- say something!'

He had NO IDEA why i was cross and giving him 'the look' as works so well with ds3 !

ANAIS,.... I will read through your threads tomorrow and hopefully help somehow! meanwhile, XXX

He was pretty funny about all the body language stuff as well. Gave an example of a woman with a veyr high IQ who didn't even notice that people used gestures and stuff until she was in her mid twenties. Had to be taught muscle movement by muscle movement how to gesture.

Anais sorry to hear that. Do you know how to go about getting a dx in your area? It can be useful, especially if you need some help from someone. How old is your ds? If pre-school age a dx can give you access to an NAS earlybird scheme which is very useful for giving you ways to deal with everything. - very practical and helpful.

MrsF, I don't suppose many of my posts are relevant - I mostly post on the trivial threads!

Jimjams, ds is 5 and we're HEing. I don't know how to get a dx - I have just emailed the NAS for advice and I guess I'll go to the GP (alone, initially) and ask for a referral.

I knew you were Hedding- which can make life easier in some ways for a child with AS. Try your GP first, but you could also try your health visitor (not sure whether they can refer to paed- but they may be able to refer to someone who can help woith specific problems). You need a referral to a developmental paediatrician for a dx- probably at your local child development centre. It's worth asking whether they run multidisciplinary assessments- we had one with ds1. He was assessed over a period of 6 weeks in a nursery setting and saw paed, SALT, clinical psych, hearing team and the social worker during those 6 weeks. At the end a big case conference to confrim the dx- it saved a lot of waiting being able to see everyone at once.

anais, just browsing idly before bed and spotted your post. Just wanted to say that I'm really, really sorry you are having a hard time. I'm sure you will get fantastic advice on this thread if you want it.

if you speak to your health visitor they can fill in all the forms for a refferal to the cdc paed and then they just get the gp to sign it. Saves alot of hassle if your hv is good

Makes total sense to me maryz- ds1 is having to be taught english as a foreign language.

LOl at the people hurting themselves on purpose by the way.

They used an example last night of a very intelligent (IQ 140ish) adult with HFA. She needed a way to get somone's attention if she needed to get out of a socail occasion. They had to teacher her like this "look at the front portion of someones face, look at their eyes, put your hand out and move a finger" (ie catch someone's eye and beckon).

maryz-DS2 'flipped' this year when i'd 'made the mistake' of as he saw it 'promising' to go to play 'crazy golf' ---next day it poured with rain...i decided not to go etc etc etc! He still wanted to go. I have since learnt that though he needs to know plans etc...so he can 'prepare' I now no longer tell him anything to far in advance unless i know that whatever the weather etc we will go

Yes they talked about this yesterday- but also potential (real life) problems.

Eg if you teach "strangers are dangerous" In one case this then caused problems when a neighbour had a baby. Lots of "strangers" came to visit - therefore they must be dangerous, therefore they must be trying to get the baby, therefore I need a knife. Complicated flow charts are needed!

And of course if they are operating without theory of mind then they won't realise that although these people are strangers to them, they may not be to the neighbour. Just to make it more difficult.

Thanks everyone for your messages. I am doing a search for tony attwood - and unfortunately my HV is c**p.

Despite my resolve of last night I have got cold feet on the dx thing I feel like I'm subjecting him to a life time of labelling. He's certainly not on the extreme end of the scale, and as he's not in school I'm not sure how much use a dx would be? I'm going backwards and forwards trying to make a decision, and wracking my brain trying to work out what I did to make him like this (irrational I know, but I bet you've all done it )

I will see what the NAS have to say and see what information/advice/support we can get without a dx before I decide to go for dx. If we can find a way of managing his behaviour without then I think we will do that...

Feeling very overwhelmed and depressed by everything right now.

Anais- I'm really, really sorry to hear things are so hard for you and your boy at the moment. I think you are doing absolutely the right thing by getting more information and going from there. There's lots of reading material and advice out there and it may be that you either get a thump of recognition or can go on to rule out the possibility of ASD once you find out more. I think the words "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" are usually very, very scary for parents. Maybe one thing to consider is that your lovely boy in all his complexity is your lovely boy in all his complexity whether an ASD description fits him or not? So in a way it's about how helpful it is for you and for him to look at that description and work with it. You may find that working with it helps you and him to understand who he is and manage his behaviour.

I do sympathise utterly- I work with many families going through this and have also had my own personal scared thumps of semi-recognition when considering one of my sons, who is definitely very "left-brained" and shows some classic signs of a dyspraxic/aspie type personality. At the moment his battery collection, made up words, collywobbles over the way food is cut and insistence on walking to nursery with his grandad's old pipe sticking out of his mouth (not filled with tobacco, I hasten to add!) are not a major problem for us. They and other quirky things are an intrinsic part of his sweet, odd little self and do make him a little different from most other kids but not especially difficult as yet, though he certainly has his moments. I usually find his totally different twin much harder to manage in actual fact. I expect we would think more about actively considering whether ASD is a useful descriptive fit for my son and whether to seek a diagnosis if we reached a point where he, we or other adults who look after him are finding life difficult. Meanwhile, I am lucky that I know lots of lovely ASD kids and their families through work and have read quite a bit about autism/aspergers/asd and that does help me to understand a bit about what may possibly be going on for my son. I'm sure that once you start to talk to the NAS and find out a bit more you'll feel a little clearer about what to do for the best, even if you, quite naturally, still feel confused and scared. I do hope things take a turn for the better soon and HTH. Take care of yourself. xxx

Nah- it's not a label it's a signpost Having said that you may not need a label if you stay home edding (I think you could in school).

An excellent read about the pros of being labelled (straight from the horses mouth so to speak) is in "freaks geeks and Aspergers Syndrome" by Luke Jackson. In there he talks about how pleased he was to find out he had a dx. He has his own website as well.

BTW anais- I know a number of people who have recievd a dx of AS, which they have then lost as the child has managed to deal with a lot of their difficulties, and funciton well without extra help or consideration. So don't feel like the label will always be there- if not needed it can be lost.

Aslo youmight want to subscribe to the HE SEN list - it is very friendly and useful- LOADS of people with AS on there. It would be a good place to ask about the value of a dx.