Can someone tell me about ADD / ADHD

[nenevomito]

After over a year on the waiting list, we finally saw the Clinical Psych today. We were discussing DS and all of his issues.

Up to now, with the paed, the EP, SALT and the rest have all been talking to us about Aspergers / HFA and it fits with how DS is and what he does and how he relates to the world.

The CP asked us whether we'd considered Attention Deficit Disorder. Well no, no we hadn't. It put me on the back foot as I've not even looked at it and to be honest after spending the last 12 months getting my head around Aspergers I wasn't expecting something else to be thrown at me.

I have already started looking on line for info, but really what I would like is to get some info from someone whose child has this diagnosis to understand more about it and where DS may fit. I'm also interested if anyone else has a dual diagnosis of ASD / ADHD.

After waiting for so long to see him I feel knocked off my feet, especially after all of the crap I had from the LA last week as well. I know its stupid, but I've had real problems with my parents, getting them to accept that DS has AS and while they still don't believe it, they are reasonably accepting, but think its partly down to my shit parenting. But I know full well that they are people who "don't believe" in ADD or ADHD and if I even bring it up, they will just use it for more ammunition for their "you're just a shit parent" tack.

Crappy bollocking shite bums.

You are not a sht parent. I wish all stupid parents/relatives spent some time on this site. Had a major 'discussion' (ha ha) with my DB and SIL last night. and their belief it's all down to sht parenting.

"We all have to deal with meltdowns from our DC".

Yeah whatever.

Hugs OP.

I'm just feeling a bit sensitive at the moment. I could really do with support from my family, but there's not a chance. Its just a whole other condition that I need to get my head around that I've not even considered.

I just want to help DS and seem to get nowhere.

well, ds1 was a 'jury still out' kid until 10. aspergers, odd, pda, you name it, all considered and mulled over. he was dx with adhd and some aspie traits (sensory and social), and anxiety and phobic stuff for good measure, in december. which, in a nutshell, (i think) means the jury is still out, although the dx is official, on paper/ with school, etc etc. it has made not one jot of difference thus far, except he has picked up a psych and some adhd meds. nothing different with school at all.

they are all just descriptions of behaviours. no one label really means anything in particular, but a dx is a useful shorthand for openers. a lot of the issues will be dealt with in the same way in any case - there isn't a one size fits all solution to any of the behaviours that need support (as i'm sure you know as well as i do!) but most of the supports will be the same for a lot of the potential labels, iyswim...

so, i kind of think that if you continue to focus on his difficulties and getting support for them, it doesn't really matter what label they in the end decide to apply to them. as long as the support is in place. as they are obviously in agreement that there is a 'something', can you try and focus on the actual difficulties and seek support for those instead?

a label in itself isn't really going to 'fix' anything, whatever the label is. and it's probably true that he falls between diagnostic criteria if they are considering different things. (i actually don't think there is one dx that would be appropriate for ds1. he's just himself. it doesn't stop me looking for one though!)

i don't have any real specific advice that will help you make your mind up, but wanted to send virtual strength. it is hard.

when is your next appointment?

(((hugs))) im not in the same situation but can completely empathise. You must feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you. Question is, are your instincts right or is the CP? (I know who I'd put my money on, but never mind .

Hopefully someone will come along and give you more concrete info, but I agree with everything mad says. I think it can be very hard to get your head round how much overlap there is in everything - DS doesn't have an ASD DX but I find most of the 'ASD stuff' applies to him. So don't think that any of the work you've been doing is wasted either.

To be honest Aspergers fits. It just does. When it came up and we began to learn about it, DS suddenly made sense IYSWIM.

the 3di said ASD / Aspergers in pretty much all areas. Arse.

Well they want to see us again pretty soon and will go back in 10 days time. I want to be armed with a better knowledge of what he's talking about.

hi babyheave,
Sorry you are having to deal with grief from all directions at the moment and especially that your dparents are not being supportive. Their failure to back you up when you are going through a stressful time already is the only shit parenting going on in your family.

If you can be bothered, you could print out scientific articles on causes of and evidence for brain changes in children with adhd and/or autism vs some daily mail type junk journalism and appealing to their vanity ask which one they would choose to trust? But frankly why should you have to argue your case to them?

The only thing I could say in defence of the denial reaction is that to some extent it is caused by not wanting there to be a problem or label for the grandson they love but it's not fair if their difficulty in coming to terms with the diagnoses is expressed by undermining you. Anyway rant over...

We have a 14 yr old ds with dual asd higher functioning/Asperger's and ADHD (primarily inattentive) diagnoses. Initially at age 7ish we were told adhd inattentive sub-type with some autistic traits but as he got older the ASD traits became much more obvious and were clearly causing him more problems than the ADHD so diagnosis was revised.

There are several areas of overlap between ADHD and ASD and I have read articles that suggest they may belong (together with dyslexia and dyspraxia) as sub-types of the same condition. It can be difficult to distinguish between the ASD child's obsessive interests and the ADHD child's ability to hyperfocus on a video game but inability to finish a piece of written work independently. Inappropriate social behaviour could be the result of impulsive behaviour - adhd- or not grasping nuances of conventional social interaction - asd. Fidgetiness could be hyperactivity, could be hypersensitivity to noises/textures etc.

Ultimately the main significance of the additional/overlapping diagnosis is whether parents and school need to alter the care and provision they give. If hyperactivity or inattention are having a major impact on home or school life you may want to consider medication such as ritalin or strattera. If a lot of your ds' difficulties seem to be sensory, then a referral to an OT who can devise a sensory diet would be helpful.

Hi, We had quite a similar situation whereby the Ed Pysch wrote a report stating that our DD now 5 likely had Aspergers/ ASD. We accepted it started trying getting our heads round it and applied for a SA. To support our request we went to see a private clinical ed pysch and also an autism specialist centre. Both of these told us no way did DD have ASD that yes she did have a few traits but that everybody does. The clinical ed pysch did the Connors questionaire getting us and DD's nursery to complete she has also been subsequently formally dx with Dyspraxia and with ADHD with a private consultant.
I found it helpful to print off the symptoms/ behaviours for each condition and then tick which ones that DD demonstrated she did tick a few ASD ones but these were also ADHD traits this really cleared it up in my mind.

Pink, can I just say that was really clear. totally agree with you.

Thanks all for your replies. It's just been yet another thing to get my head around. Will reply more when not on the phone

DS1's initial diagnosis age 3 was autism with associated hyperactivity. We recently looked back at early videos of him and were shocked at what a whirlwind he was, even compared to now (he's always on the move now, but does far less of the bouncing off the walls, now he's medicated). Anyhow, after a long investigation when he turned 6, he had an official diagnosis of ADHD added into the mix (hyperactive and oppositional behaviours being the most prominent)

One thing we found as his ADHD medication took effect was that his communication improved immensely, before even his ability to occupy himself on something which required concentration improved.

DS2 also has ASD, but compared with DS1, he is very calm and placid and even though he has huge delays in language and motor skills, his eye contact and ability to reciprocate socially (eg acknowledging greetings or sharing something that amuses him or even a gentle hug) is far ahead of DS1 at the same age - even than DS1 now, in some respects.

Good point, madwoman - DS1 is gifted, too.

Hi mad, yes throwing giftedness into the equation makes it even more interesting . To some extent that could apply to ds - when he went through various standard tests (midyis on starting secondary school and wisc iv intelligence test as part of statutory assessment) his scores were all over the place, what is often described as a spiky profile. They ranged from the 2nd to the 98th centile so from severe learning difficulty in one area to gifted in another.

So with a view to working out what the barriers to learning are, it must be useful to try to work out which condition or particular symptom is potentially causing a specific difficulty. So for example ds' writing is a good few year's behind his 8yr old sister's in every respect. Off the top of my head I could list immature pencil grip, rigidity of thought, poor working memory, easy distractability, lack of theory of mind, sensory issues, lack of motivation as jsut a few of the hurdles to be overcome if ds were asked to produce a piece of imaginative writing.

We also found doing a course of cbt with ds a bit of an eye-opener as far as working out his motivation for doing or more often avoiding certain activities. Sometimes we were merrily thinking social anxiety/sensory issues were behind refusal to go out for walk in the park to be told actually he just preferred to play on his ds.

Think I'm saying in a long-winded way that I'm good at guessing but it's anyone's guess how often I get it right...

Bugger. No crystal ball, then?

Interesting that CBT gave you an insight though...

Ah well, got a parental feedback session with his psych next week, so we'll see what she has to say. I've got test results coming out of my ears, but no way of sifting which issue gives which result, lol.

Ds has beautiful handwriting. If he ever gets around to putting pen to paper...

Apols again for hijack.

Hi All and thanks for all of your replies. Actually its a very relevant hijack as DS overall GCA is on the 94th centile. 99th for non-verbal reasoning and 97th for vocab and language, so its yet another problem thrown into the mix.

I just hate feeling like I don't know whats going on again. Thats why I've not really replied for the last couple of days as I've just ignored it.

in some ways the ADHD does makes sense. He doesn't sit still, he's constantly moving and jumping, but we've always put it down to sensory seeking. He does have problems with concentration, but again aspergers could explain it.

I'm all over the place as you can probably tell.

I recently bought 'misdiagnosis and dual diagnosis of gifted children' (or whatever it's called, something like that). It was interesting, but didn't really clear up the overlaps and how to tell what's what. I think I was hoping for some sort of guide book. I guess we are all just stuck with contemplating causation and trying different supports, really.

Did it have a chapter on how gifted children eat their sisters toys?

(Ahh, sense of humour, I wonder where you'd gone),

The thing is that he's not achieving anything at school, he's way below where he should be.

Blimey, babyheave, what a pain. My DS2 bounces off the walls, or rather runs backwards and forwards down the hall everyday, and uses as much energy playing on the computer as many do playing football. I don't think he's hyperactive, though. I think it is sensory seeking behaviour. As others have said, the 'symptoms' can look the same, but it's finding the cause.

Do you think your DS ticks all the boxes for ADHD? My DS can appear inattentive, but again, I think it's just his way of being. He doesn't do eye contact or make interested comments, but he seems to have taken it all in when actually given a test at school. And he'll concentrate fine when it's made interesting and rewarding.

What's his impulsiveness(?) like? My DS used to be a nightmare, no sense of danger, but these days he's much more cautious, more so than my other two, TBH. I know he's autistic, it's bloody obvious, but whether he has ADHD as well... is that your dilemma? Does he have both rather than one or the other? No professional has ever mentioned ADHD to me. (Mind you, no professional apart from teachers and GP have seen him for 7 years!)