My son threw a rock at another child today

[CurrerBell]

DS is 5.5, in Reception, and is awaiting an assessment in two weeks. We suspect he may have AS (or possibly ADHD) - though we're unsure if he really ticks all the boxes.

He's had a great term and I was beginning to think my concerns were unfounded. Then today I had a call from the head telling me he had thrown a rock at another child and hit them on the head (face). Thank goodness the other child is ok. I'm just so shaken by this and can't understand what was in his mind.

Apparently when they talked to him about his behaviour afterwards he couldn't seem to understand what he had done wrong. He refuses to engage in talking about the incident - though he did tell me later that he had thought the rock was a clump of soil (he picked it up from a raised bed). He has issues with throwing sand, so perhaps this was connected in his mind in some way?

His teacher says he often seems unaware of other people's feelings when he is gripped by a compulsion. Yet at other times he is the most lovely, thoughtful boy - he isn't malicious at all and would never deliberately hurt someone.

We had another incident at the weekend - he managed to dislodge the very heavy rotary dryer in the garden and it fell - could have been a nasty incident for him or if DD had been near.

Not sure what I meant to say really - just feeling shaken, and after spending a long time talking with his teachers I feel like an Aspergers diagnosis is looking more likely. :(

If it makes you feel any better my friend's NT son did this when he was slightly older - after hearing the story of David and Goliath. Other child had to have stitches.

Take care of yourself.

Thank you - I suppose many children can be like this at times. It is just so out of character and hard for me to understand.

At least the school are being very supportive. The head is the SENCO and she seems to understand DS - she has seen similar traits in other children. I'm still getting over the fact that they haven't assumed I'm a 'bad parent' and are taking this all so seriously! They are writing a piece in support of our visit to the paediatrician.

When I told her DS often spins and hits himself on the head, she thought that was significant. Why does he do this? Could it be sensory-related? He does have a sensitivity to sounds.

It would have made sense to him. He just can't articulate what preceded the rock throwing. Maybe he was trying to be friendly and it went wrong. Or he was responding to a threat only he perceived.

As Little Miss said, this incident could have happened with any child of that age - not just one about to undergo an assessment.
It sounds as if school are being supportive in helping you get an assessment/diagnosis - which is half the battle. So many have posted in here that their schools wouldn't help as they struggled to get a DX and/or statement.
I know how you feel about being shaken. I have been there many times with my DS. You ask yourself why your child is like this when you know you have taught him all the right things. It really isn't your fault and all you can do is get him the help he needs. My DS is 15 and was diagnosed with HF ASD at 6, but we still have the occasional incident at school, although with DS now, it is usually because someone has 'wound him up' and he realises as soon as he has reacted that he shouldn't have done. I am way beyond feeling bad about it now and school don't ever make me feel like I'm to blame. I guess having a DX and a statement help with that side of it.

Good luck with the assessent.

Thanks - DS did open up a bit this morning and again said he thought it was a lump of soil; he hadn't meant to hurt the other child and he had said he was sorry (although the other boy had not believed him).

He seemed really out of it yesterday, but was like a different child today. His teacher said he had listened and tried really hard all day! Yesterday I could only focus on the negatives, but today he is a joy to be with. I wish I knew what triggers the difficult days, but it's like he just wakes up like that sometimes.

bigbluebus, it is interesting to hear about your teenage DS. It's good that he realises about his reaction straight away and you have the support of the school.

I have been reading up on 'sensory-seeking' behaviour and it makes a lot of sense. DS is not obsessive about routines or lining things up (or classic stuff that would point to Aspergers...). It's just like his brain goes into overload sometimes, and he forgets about the consequences of his behaviour.

I think ADD children do have an 'in the moment' tendancy and minimal ability to understand consequences. My son when he was the same age climbed up a stack of coffee tables in a furniture store and the top one fell on DD in her buggy. Also tipped her out of a shopping trolley! DD survived a night in A&E but his childhood was tbh a complete nightmare. DS didnt appear on the spectrum to me and was pretty classic ADD/ADHD.

In fact your DS sounds very like mine at that age and my DS is pretty OK now, though still a bit slow to realise consequences despite years of nagging! Good understanding, intelligent, very quick on the uptake, but tendancy to tunnel vision when he gets interested in things, cant be bothered with the mundane necessities of life...Does that sound familiar?

Hi sneezecakesmum, yes your DS's behaviour sounds very familiar... particularly the 'tunnel vision' thing. When he was 4 my DS once tipped DD out of her highchair because he wanted to investigate something underneath. He also (strongly) resists the mundane necessities of life such as getting dressed...

I don't know if this sounds like ADHD, but he used to run away a lot as a toddler / preschooler - he would just suddenly take off and leg it down the road. He once ran away from me in a busy supermarket (he kept it up for minutes on end, hiding from me as I got more and more panicky...). He would also do things like bash the stairgate into me when I was coming up the stairs with DD in my arms. Looking at his face, he was almost smirking like it was a game to him - he was just totally unaware of the seriousness of it.

He is a lot better nowadays, and hasn't done anything dangerous for a while, which is why I was pretty shaken yesterday. Lately his issues have been more social - such as not joining in at parties and becoming withdrawn and upset. He doesn't really have obsessions, but is very maths / science oriented and will spend hours concentrating on his Lego - particularly Technical Lego or anything with cogs in it! He loves puzzles and jigsaws and has good attention for learning, even though he finds it hard to sit still at times.

When he is agitated or out of sorts, it is a nightmare. He came in the kitchen yesterday like a whirlwind. I was trying to say something to him, but instead of listening he went from one object to the other, touching things compulsively. Each time I tried to redirect him or get his attention he just went to another object of interest, picking it up etc. That did feel very ADHD (although I don't know a lot about it).

I feel like I'm watching him with a therapists' eyes at the moment - it's quite exhausting, and many things seem to fit, but then the next day not quite fit...

omg yes. Running away at times (though not to the extent some ASD children do). More 'I want to see whats going on over there'. Took them to the races and he tried to climb over the rail just as the horses we thundering up! Massively good concentration on technical things, was happy with lego building complex space guns! Stuck his foot out to trip the teacher up on his first day at school I foolishly though I was just a rubbish parent and school would sort him out lol.

He was very distubed when his baby sister was born at 2.5 and I had to tie her bedroom door closed as he would go upstairs to 'hit the baby'! I did all the right things but he really hated her!

Mundane things....like dressing. When he was older I gave up trying to get him out of his school clothes after school, and he would sleep in them, get himself up, do his paper round and go to school! I'm a very normal person and horrified to read that but I was so exhausted with the constant battle I gave in.

Reading your post brings it all back and although my DS is grown up now I would have medicated him if ritalin had been available, but cutting out food colourings helped enormously, but he missed out academically and therefore financially because he did not reach anywhere near his true potential which is a bit sad. I read some posts on ADHD and tbh they sound loads worse than DS and more veering to ASD but there is still far more help today and recognition of ADHD.

My ds3 (16) has ADHD and sounds very like your son. He was a bolter too and we had the police involved twice when we lost him (before he was 3). he used to throw things, often at his brother and once pushed his brother down the stairs. He acts first and thinks later. He has taken Ritalin since he was seven and the difference has been amazing. He is, academically, very clever and also very musical. He certainly won't reach his potential, at least not at school, but should do quite well.

He is a lovely, friendly boy and there's no doubt that his first years at school were the most difficult it's good that the school are on your side.

That's really interesting - and some scary incidents there which remind me of a few things DS has done in the past.

I had almost ruled out ADHD as DS can concentrate really well at times. His teacher says he can generally control himself quite well in the classroom and loves to learn. However, he finds it hard to organise himself, and has these seemingly random moments of overload where it's like something else takes over his mind and body.

He has calmed down a lot during the last year and is less hyperactive than he used to be. It is now that the social problems seem to be emerging, which is why I've been tending to look at ASD and haven't fully considered ADHD.

One interesting thing I've realised is that he never had temper tantrums as a toddler (not the classic type you see with other kids). He got upset and 'lost it', but it came out more as hitting or restlessness/running away. He most often bolted in stressful, busy environments (such as a supermarket) or at transitions times such as leaving preschool. I've started to see his demand avoidance as a kind of anxiety-based meltdown too (we are considering he might have PDA).

There seems to be such a lot of overlap between all these conditions though so I am really confused.

That's good advice, thanks. I am getting a bit obsessed with trying to 'diagnose' DS. It is like a huge jigsaw that I am desperate to solve. It doesn't help that I am starting to see lots of AS-type stuff in myself, and have been zoning out more than normal... my head is spinning.

Anyway I now have compiled a set of notes detailing events since DS was a toddler. So I'm going to try and accept I've done all I can for now, and wait to see what the professionals have to say...

There seems to be such a lot of overlap between all these conditions though so I am really confused.

Ds was originally diagnosed with DCD and it was only later after completing connors questionnaire's that ADHD was arrived at. He also has AS tendencies so there is definitely an overlap. I have no doubt that I have ADD but did not realise until after ds was diagnosed and ds2 (14) also has AS tendencies but not affecting his life in such a way that I would seek diagnosis. Strangely almost all of ds2's friends have some sort of diagnosis (2 Aspergers, 1 DCD)
They are a really nice group of boys.

I am trying not to obsess about the (possible) diagnosis but I can't seem to stop researching...

I have been thinking today about affection. DS will tolerate caresses and might sometimes ask for a cuddle, but sort of in a compulsive way - and he never volunteers or reciprocates affection. If I cuddle him when he is upset, it can make him worse. He gets on well with his little sister and is always kind to her, but he will never cuddle or kiss her. Is he just being a typical boy?! It just makes me sad at times, because it's like we are speaking different languages... Whereas my DD will come running into my arms when she sees me, and be completely open and expressive.

This is going to sound weird, but I actually enjoyed it recently when DS was ill, as it felt like he really needed me. He was really snuggly, calm, and grateful for everything I did for him!

Sorry - going off at a bit of a tangent here. I am trying to notice and document stuff as much as I can before the appointment... two weeks to go....

The reactions you refer to are not 'typical boy' as such, but all children are different. I've heard of loads of little cuddly boys, and very standoffish girls when it comes to affection! There just is no typical.

It IS typical of nearly all children who are 'normal' to want cuddles and close contact when they are ill. I hear this loads of times in my job from amazed mothers who say they are worried because their normally whirlwind child is ill and only wants to cuddle...they really are WORRIED by it! They say their toddler never wants to cuddle!

Try not to stress too much (easier said than done) but does your DS sound to have the triad of impairments that ASD children MUST show? : difficulty with social communication- difficulty with social interaction-difficulty with social imagination. He doesnt to me but i am certainly not an expert, but I do know that my DS with ADHD took forever to 'mature' compared to other children....still not there tbh

Thanks sneezecakesmum - it's funny as I've just had a lovely couple of days with DS! He was affectionate today, to both DD and I, so scrap what I said yesterday. He is very different to DD in the way he shows it, but he is at heart a very caring and thoughtful little boy. He had a £1 to spend on himself and chose to buy three bags of sweets so we would have one each. He even walked beside me and held my hand! When he is calm he really is like a completely different child. I wish I knew what caused the mood changes! Normally the holidays are a nightmare.

I'm beginning to doubt ASD. I think he does have social imagination. He likes to teach DD things and is protective of her. He was also playing at trains with her today (made out of chairs) so I think he does have imagination. He doesn't have the obsessive routine thing - quite the opposite - he's disorganised and flighty (like me...).

It does feel like he's taking forever to 'mature' in his emotions and his ability to calm himself. He is super-sensitive to everything (which he shows either by getting upset, or by going into his 'silly' hyper / zoned out mode). He will also take the most innocuous comment literally. For example, I was joking today that we nearly left him behind (he was slow to leave the house), and he got really upset. He doesn't seem to understand teasing at all. A few people have independently wondered if he might be on the spectrum because of this.

I was reading about Dabrowski's Overexcitabilities and that describes me to a tee... I don't know if it's a psychologically recognised term, but it was interesting as I have all those sensory issues and so does DS. We also both have synesthesia (numbers, letters, days of the week etc). He's a deep thinker and is always surprising us by the random / insightful things he comes out with.

Anyway, I am feeling less stressed now after a much better day. :)

Ds is also very sensitive and doesn't understand teasing. His report card one year said Drama: doesn't 'do' drama. The only person jubilee jr can be is jubilee jr. And it's true he doesn't pretend to be someone he isn't and if you ask for the truth you get the whole truth - not always what you want to hear.

He was very slow to mature but I really notice a difference these last couple of years.

justa not quite sure why you say I am getting into global diagnoses when I was saying currerBells DS is in many ways behaving like a typical but individual child who is unique, (as are ALL children).

I listed the triad of impairments just for currer to look into as she has expressed this worry herself. I also said I am no expert, but from what she says her DS doesnt sound to have them, so I certainly havent diagnosed or dismissed her concerns.

Like jubilees DS my ADHD son didnt like teasing, but enjoyed drama! I think the teasing was to do with oversensitivity, as he now has a wicked sense of humour, but still not keen on teasing. Actually I hate teasing personally as I often think there can be an element of ridicule in it, but maybe thats me, but plenty of people dont like teasing!

About dabrowski..My DS ticked some boxes (mainly the intellectual) but by no means all of those..... so does DH!!......Mainly with the scatterbrained element!

Personally I would say currers DS sounds absolutely delightful, hard work, confusing, endearing and a bit of a puzzle. If a label gets him and mum some extra support all well and good. With sensitive handling and guidance I think he has a very bright future. (disclaimer. its my personal opinion based on the OPs words and should not be taken as any kind of prediction or diagnosis)

It's ok sneezecakes, I am keeping an open mind and have not taken anything you or anyone else said as an attempt at a diagnosis. :) It is just useful to bounce ideas around so thank you for that. All the replies here have been so helpful.

Thank you for the positive words about DS - he certainly is delightful and also hard work! His teachers are very fond of him, but puzzled. They have all said that he will go far in life - so I really really want to ensure that he has the best chances possible.

BTW my DH said last night that I've become totally obsessed with 'solving' DS's problem, and he's not convinced there is one. He said it very lovingly and I think he is right that I do get obsessed with researching stuff, and it's probably not helpful at this stage. We need to wait to see what the professionals say. Anyway, I am taking a step back from reading up on stuff, having some wine, and a curry night with DH. :)

I really don't know whether he fits the triad of impairments. Re social imagination, I really haven't seen him engage much in imaginative play with other children, so it's hard for me to judge. He's always building Lego or running around. Yet he has imaginative dreams (e.g. about building things that come alive) and he very frequently (several times a day) will notice patterns or shapes in everyday objects, eg a puddle. He'll say, 'Oh that shape looks like a knight', or 'look at that pattern... it looks like xx'.

Re cuddles. DS has always found it very difficult to sit at the table to eat his meals. He would be up and down like a jack in a box, and run around (though he is a lot better these days). At these times he would often come up demanding cuddles, which felt a bit compulsive. I would be feeling cross with him, but he'd be coming up going 'Cuddle... cuddle' - almost as a way to avoid sitting down and eating his tea. He doesn't normally ask for cuddles and doesn't seem to want them at all when he is properly upset. When he is really upset he seems to be angry with the person who's trying to comfort him. But in a calm / snuggly mood he will enjoy being held.

BTW He often speaks in one-word or very simple sentences, like a baby, when he's in one of his compulsive moods - yet he is very advanced and articulate normally. Like when getting dressed, he'll repeatedly say 'Need some help, need some help' and not attempt to do any of it for himself.

I am just trying to work out what might be significant as there is such a lot to discuss with the paediatrician... We also have a strong history of problems in my family going back through the generations: anxiety, depression, bipolar, OCD, possible AS - mostly affecting the males of the family. The problems were not understood or supported... I have lost two family members to suicide. So I am also scared that there is a genetic component to DS's behaviour.