Thinking of applying for SA again, feeing rusty

[claw4]

Over a year ago went to Tribunal and lost. Since that time, school have used this as an excuse to give ds even less help.

School told Tribunal that ds had all this wonderful help in place, for example that his IEP is termly - he hasnt had an IEP since FEB 2011 (since Tribunal)

SALT/OT had termly planning meetings with SENCO and ds had programmes, when in fact there were none. The school dont ever have meetings with any OT and ds did not have a SALT programme.

That ds had a mentor programme, he didnt.

Anyhow, school would say again that they are meeting his needs from within their budget and he is making good progress.

Last Tribunal they produced no documents of progress and then after tribunal produced false documents ie they backdated IEP's to cover the lie they told during Tribunal. They even put into writing that they didnt have meetings with OT and ds did not have a mentor programme. I have evidence of this.

So how can i apply for SA on the grounds that ds isnt making progress?

Would the best way of showing this be to get private SALT, OT, EP assessments done again now, to compare to the private assessments i had done a year ago?

Becaroo, 3 t's must mean they think you are really nuttty I have had that too, thats another thing that scares me. The more i fight, the more 'over anxious' i look. The LA already referred to social services when i applied for first SA they told me it was to help identify ds's needs, but found on ds's school file it was 'to help mum with her anxieties'! Bloody cheek, the LA hadnt even met or spoken to me at this point, nor are they qualified to assess my anxiety levels!

sigh....its a bloody merry go round isnt it?

I took ds1 out of an awful school, HE'd him for a year and now am doing therapies with him (which we pay for) at home. The HT hates me after I disagreed with the (crap) EP report (which I also paid for!)

Dont care. She can hate me as much as she wants! Just wait til I get on the BofG!!!!

Becaroo, it is a merry go round, a never ending one at that!

This is the kind of stuff i get from school;-

January 2011 school to LA
Reading 2b
Writing 2c
Maths 2c

Feb 11 in IEP
Reading 3
Writing 2a
Maths 2a

May at Tribunal
Reading 2b
Writing 2c
Maths 2b
Science 2a

July school report
Reading 2a
Writing 2a
Maths 2a
Science 2

LA EP assessed ds's reading level to be age 10.6 years, (reading is ds's 'thing' he is obsessed with it)

Private OT assessed ds in school, school told her he is making progress and had no difficulties in any areas. The very same day, the school had completed their own sensory check list and the areas they told OT he had no difficulty in, he had NOT achieved on their checklist.

Another private EP had assessed ds when he was 6 and he scored very highly in all areas, his general score (IQ) was something like 98th centile.

Private EP assessed ds when he was 7 and was not able to compute a general score due to the amount of scatter in his scores.

Social skills - school say good progress. Ds's had 6 different assessments/observations during this time, on different days, including LA's professionals. All observed he was not interacting, seemed confused etc, etc.

School said that ds's SALT and IEP targets were termly, but he hasnt had an IEP since Feb 2011. SALT had not been to school for over a year.

Is this enough to show that school are not measuring progress in an effective manner and that an SA is needed?

Well, not really but it is enough to show that the school need help of some kind and that 'usually' ends in a SA because it is the tool LA's use.

It is the LA, not the school that is responsible for your ds' education. If the school are failing him it is 'technically' the LA's fault.

The school being crap isn't a reason for a SA, nor their lack of measuring. But you don't criticise their measuring. You take it as fact and ask what the bloody he'll is the matter with your poor boy that his scores are jumping all over the place and that his needs will have to assessed to figure out what is going on.

Thanks Star that is exactly what i was looking for.

Can i ask how did you manage to get a statement (apart from you being brilliant at this stuff), i noticed on another thread you were saying that your ds is HF, doing well academically, well behaved?

Its very very hard to get dc help when their performance is so "spiky" IME.

The day the EP saw ds1 (last sept) his spelling was

Thanks Becaroo, that is brilliant and would explain why a year ago he was on 0.4 centile for semantics, 3 years behind with vocab. A year later he is on 75th centile for semantics and 50th for vocab, after receiving a handful of work sheets from SALT for TA to complete with ds.

Ds still cannot name common household items, like a light switch, a dishwasher, a microwave, a radiator etc. He will describe what they do.

Even this morning for example when getting ready for school, i told ds "brush your teeth and get your shoes on before you look for your school book" and he told me he had forgotten what i had said, he could only remember the first thing. I had to break the instruction down into one step instructions.

Claw, I can onto MN saw posts like yours and made damn well I applied before he ever got into the school system..

I had a huge advantage of having worked for 10 years in LA's and therefore knew that everyone I saw was 'probably' caught up in an inefficient system of confusion. Fine if you're building a new arts centre, NOT when it comes to the education of a small child locked away in his disability.

claw That sounds VERY familiar!

I only ask ds1 to do one thing at a time now...I have learnt the hard way! I also try and make sure he is looking at me (and not a book or the TV) when I ask him something/tell him something otherwise he just wanders around and picks up random things to give to me...eg:
"Ds2 can you pass me a tissue?"
"OK"

Its pretty common btw...for sn/sen kids to have such "spiky" profiles but it doesnt help us help them, does it?

Ds1's school are in TOTAL denial that he has any issues. sigh. They have ignored the dyslexia dx so the EP report was a total waste of time. I havent even told them that the private paed is going to dx asd. Whats the point? They would ignore that too. The only thing they are doing is a speech and language group Ds1 has no problems with speech and language. I guess it the only intervention group that had room for another child?

I dont even care tbh...he is happy to go, he likes the TA that runs the group and he gets stars all the time (because he finds it easy because he doesnt need it!!! ) so I am ok with him going BUT its mad isnt it?

Ds1 gets no 1-1 (recommended by EP) no specialist dyslexia interventions (recommended by EP) He gets a phonics group 2 x a week but its a bit pointless as he finds phonics really hard because of his dyslexia AARRGGGGHHHH......

So. We have "opted out". We are doing a treatment programme with ds1 at home and so far things are going very well. I had a "epiphany" of sorts after the EP report and general crapness since...it might not be that the school wont help him , perhaps the school cant help him? They havent got the money, specialist resources or training.

Dh and I now have no savings left and will still have about £300 to spend til we come to the end of the programme, but its been worth it. Ds1 is now blossoming His self esteem is growing (a BIG issue for him) and he is making academic progress for the first time since Y2 (he is now Y4).

I think star is spot on...you need to be asking why his profile is so spiky??? What could cause this? How can he be helped?

The only thing that is making me think twice about applying again, is what i am actually fighting for, crap provision available on the NHS.

In my experience, NHS OT's are also prepared to lie to lighten their case load or cover their arses, especially if school are prepared to lie about progress.

Im really wondering whether i would be better off taking out a large loan, getting private OT's etc to go into school, teach TA etc and make sure they are doing what they should be doing. This way if im paying, i know progress will be recorded accurately.

Thats why I havent applied tbh claw Have been told by every hcp and his HT that he "is not bad enough" to get SA How bad do our kids have to be/ Hoe much do they have to suffer?

Without exception every NHS provision we have encountered has been crap....its not that way for everyone obviously, but I am speaking of my experience. The ONLY things that have helped ds1 are therapies I have paid for.

I am simply not prepared to spend time, energy and money fighting for something that wont help my son.

I cant tell you what a load off my mind it is now I am not having meetings with a hostile HT every 2 months or trying to get an nhs paed to help me "a dx of asd wont actually help your son and could harm his future"

sigh.

Perhaps I am just lazy???

claw Things got so bad last year and I was so worried about ds1 I told dh that "I will sell a kidney if I have to" to get ds1 the help he needs.

(I googled it, actually, you only get £4k for a klidney!!!)

Its hasnt come to that (yet!) and family have helped us out too, but I dont regret a single penny.

'The only thing that is making me think twice about applying again, is what i am actually fighting for, crap provision available on the NHS.'

That is a really good point. What I would say you are fighting for however, is secondary transfer provision and the entitlement to chose whichever ms state school you want, particularly if you are prepared to take responsibility for transport.

If one parent feels that when appealing they our concerned that the LEA have views of anxiety or over demanding parent or even vexatious etc, a way to overcome this is to have the other parent sign the forms, speak to school etc. in some ways it becomes a new request but with the bonus of all your evidence.

Star, what do you think about me writing to school about ds's 'spiky' profile etc and trying to get them to agree to SA? Even if they say no, i then still apply and maybe once presented with the 'evidence' i have, they will have no choice?

The outcome i want is for school to monitor progress in an accurate way, regardless of provision, so i can see a true reflection of progress.

Becaroo, that is what i get all the time 'statements are for children who are more severe than ds'!

I dont think lazy comes into it I reached a point when i thought, all the time i am spending writing appeal documents, gathering evidence etc is all time that would be better spent helping ds myself too.

@ you actually googled how much a kidney is worth!

Thanks squidworth, they have no evidence of me suffering with anxiety, they have never said it to my face, just what i have found written on ds's school file. I think it says more about them and the lengths they are prepared to go to, than me.

Ds was hospitalised for scratching in skin off etc, CAMHS concluded his anxieties were school related, but yet the LA decided to make a referral to social services to 'help mum with her anxieties' (although they had never even met or spoken to me, all i did was apply for SA), rather than helping ds with his.

Its a Pita to have the 'over anxious' mother title, as you have to continually prove otherwise.

claw Its not much for a kidney is it?

Ds1's school cant say I am "over-anxious"...they hardly ever see or hear from me these days!!! (that being said I am listening to the Y5 EAL kids reading this afternoon...)

The less I have to do with the hostile HT the better I like it! There is no SENco atm so thats not something I have to worry about either

Def contact school re; his spiky profile, why they think its spiky, how they can help him, what they intend to do re: interventions...put the ball firmly in their court!

Oh i dont know Becaroo, 4k is looking pretty attractive at the moment to someone who has about 50 quid to her name

Im the same, Ive had 2 meetings with SENCO since ds started there a year and half ago and one of them was prior to him starting!

Do you know what the difference between scores would have to be to be considered spiky? In some instances, its pretty obvious 0.4 to 75th, but others 99th to 84th for example, would that be considered spikey or more that he is not maintaining his progress?

Should i even bother mentioned scores like that or just blantantly obvious ones? I dont want people thinking im just not happy because ds isnt continuing along the 99th centile, but i think this demonstrates just how spikey his general profile is, 99th (if only for eye hand coordination) to 0.4 for semantics. He really is all over the place.

claw AFAIK the SENCOP states that SA can be awarded for "lack of adequate progress".

BUT what do you so when your child (like mine) makes little/no progress in a whole academic year but the school maintain that they are in fact making progress - despite his NC scores being the same at start of Y3 as they were at the start of Y4!...and breathe....

As you have found to your cost, schools can be pretty unprofessional wrt how this is proved. Or not as the case may be. If school isnt behind you (and IME and after reading so many posts on MN) the majority arent then IMO you will spend a LONG time fighting for help that the school/LA cannot/will not give your child.

I help out at my sons school (in Y5) and I use the SENcos old room (there is no SENco atm...) and its not until you actually see the tiny amount of resources and time that are allocated to help sn/sen kids that you realise what an uphill climb it all is

I am very unhappy atm wrt sn/sen provision at my sons school - the teachers and TAs are doing their best but there is no SENco and no specialist interventions like "reading recovery" and "Switch On" that were being offered last year. There has been no SENco since end of the summer term 2011. But what can I do? A letter to the BofG wont get my anywhere. The HT is not my biggest fan and the teachers really are doing their best. I just wonder if the other parents of kids on the sen register know whats going on?

Sigh.....

I think stating some stats is neccessary to prove your point about just how spiky his profile is.

Its not about him "maintaining the 98th centile" its about the fact his scores are, as you say, "all over the place" and what is causing that.

Thanks Becaroo, i just spoke to SEN SOS and he didnt hold out much hope, he seems to think the fact that ds's levels are age appropriate, it doesnt really matter that one minute he is a 3, next day literally he is 2, the point is that a 2 is still average and this is how the LA would view it.

Im so that they can lie and not be held accountable. I could write to them and ask them to explain their lies, but whats the point, all that will do is cause hostility, i gain nothing, but maybe a some sense of satisfaction!

I dont know what to do for the best, school say that ds doesnt need the help recommended by professionals and Tribunal agreed with them. Since then they have been acting like they have immunity.

Oh and ds has come home with an IEP in his bookbag dated September 2011!!

IEP is dated 30th September, there is also a progress monitoring sheet on his school file dated 30th September, same day, his reading level on IEP is 3 and a 3c on monitoring sheet. So he has gone up or down a level in a day? Does it go 3, 3c, 3b, 3a? or are 3 and 3c the same thing?

claw Oh its makes me so But as you say, whats the point?

NC levels go 3c, 3b, and 3a then its 4c, 4b, 4a etc

There is a big difference IMO between a 3c and a 3a but there are other more knowledgeable than me about that. Its quite a jump between levels...i.e. from a 1a to a 2c.

As you say, the win at tribunal has given them immunity. It sucks

Thanks for that Becaroo, you are right i googled, it goes 3c, 3b, 3a and apparently children are expected to go up a level, every 2 years, so a 2b to 3b in 2 years. 1.5 sub levels per year.

So in July 2009 at old school ds was 1c reading, writing 1c, maths 1c. He started new school in June 2010 and a year and half later, he has gone up 7 sub levels for reading, 5 sub levels for writing and maths

That is very good progress claw and I guess thats what they are saying to you as an excuse for their (very) shoddy behaviour?

Good academic progress is great (and all some schools care about) BUT it doesnt answer your questions/worry about why his profile is so spiky and what causes this spikiness.

IMVHO private is the only way to go. (sorry)

x