School have suggested DS see an EdPsych. He is 10 and we're moving soon. Terrified I have let him down irreparably.

[cuddlymanatee]

DS has had social problems (with peers), since he started school really. At first it was put down to him being an only (DS2 was born when DS was 5), and not having spent much time with children his own age prior to school.

In year 2 I became concerned that he wasn't forming friendships and spoke to his teacher who instigated a social skills group and was very supportive. I asked, specifically, if she thought there might be an underlying cause I should be looking out for and she said no.

His year 3 teacher insisted he was absolutely fine in all areas (he was achieving well academically), and that his social issues weren't a problem. At the same time the behaviour of his year group as a whole began to decline and he would say he didn't want to play with his peers as their games were too rough or physical (he is very unsporty).

His emotional development - empathy, compassion, consideration for the feelings of others etc - seemed fine. I am HATING myself now. But I was v young when I had DS and XP has always poo-poohed my concerns quite forcefully.

In year 4 his behaviour at school began to be flagged and I spent a lot of time with his teacher who maintained that his behaviour was well within 'normal' and he might be reacting to his year group again (some children with serious problems). He was referred to a SALT for a lisp. I had to argue with XP about that - he threatened to use his PR to stop the referral. DS had to argue that he wanted to see the SALT.

This year has been awful. His behaviour at home has become very worrying. He lies, has a terrible temper and a persecution complex. He comes home from school saying he has been bullied and picked on. He developed a sporadic stomach pain which meant he was sent home from school like clockwork on Mondays - I took him to the GP and we decided between ourselves (the GP and I), to 'take it seriously' and omit physical causes - Ds ended up with an ultrasound scan which of course showed no problems and since then the stomach pains have disappeared.

I spoke to his teacher and the picture she painted was of DS escalating situations and seeking out negative interactions. In his own accounts he leaves that stuff out.

Recently he came home saying a child had urinated on his coat. I hit the roof and went to school all guns blazing. They dealt with the issue very satisfactorially but I learnt that DS had had his hands round this other child's throat and chased him into the toilet before the urine incident. DS said he hadn't told me that as 'it wasn't relevant'.

At school he interrupts lessons with irrelevant questions constantly.

At a meeting yesterday I asked if he could be referred to an EdPsych. The teacher seemed relieved and said she'd been hoping to suggest the same thing.

He's ten! I know from here that the sooner difficulties are highlighted the better. So much damage has been done already. Also we are moving in Summer - there's a possibility we could get a private EP report but I don't know if we need to be referred through the school or what; DS's teacher has just said she will speak to the SENCO.

I am not thinking ASD. I have mentioned ADHD in the past but it's been roundly rubbished (NOT by EdPsys but there are a lot of statemented children at DS's school which is why I trusted the teacher's opinion which was so stupid, god), as he is academic and can concentrate etc. But ODD sounds a lot like him - though not to a massive degree. Even so, he needs help. I can't believe I've waited til now.

I need to do this and get things going but I just don't know where to start or how. XP is very against anything 'official'.

Your DS sounds a lot like my DSD11, who is currently being assessed.

DH and I were really down when she was referred because we felt we had failed her. Thing is, we didn't know so how could we do anything.

I think you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. Your XP sound like he's in denial ( DH was displaying that in the beginning until I read him the list of AS traits DSD is presenting as well as himself )

You're doing the right thing by seeking help for him.

Nothing wise to add as we are at the beginning of the process but wanted you to know, you're not alone!

Everybody I am sorry you are going through this too (I think the feeling I have failed DS is the worst - that either I should've parented him differently or have realised he needed help sooner or both), but it is perversely reassuring to hear of another family who are going through this. Thankyou so much for replying.

XP thinks DS has 'brought it on himself' and is in denial yes. But also, he doesn't 'know' DS - the time they spend together is mostly just one-on-one in XP's house (he left when I was pregnant), etc. I have given his opinion too much weight I think

Thankyou so much for replying.

Cuddly, I think guilt is felt by every parent at every some stage, but it's a negative emotion and not helpful. The important thing is to look to the future and recognise that you are helping your DS now. Good idea to get the EP involved, but in my LA it's a really long process. He may not be seen before the end of the summer. Are you moving areas? Will it be to a new LA? Is he already on school action?

He's not on school action no. We are moving countries so I was hoping to have some idea of what he might need before we left - if we go for a private ep report might that happen in time? Do the school refer or can we self-referr do you know?

School usually refer, helps to have parents on side, but to get something in time... I'm not sure. Ask at school. Can you afford a private EP report? Exciting to be emigrating. You may need just to start from scratch in new country, no guarantee they'll recognise a UK EP report.

We can get the money together - do you know how much it might be? We are in London - it's important enough to beg/borrow/steal etc. The county we're going to does sort of recognise uk EPs but will have their own procedures - but we need to show he has additional needs from the get-go, will speed things along there. Plus when we come back.,,

I'd go for the private report now, as it's something you can do. You may have to start again from scratch when you get to the other country but there's probably things you can be doing at home meantime once you have a dx, or things you could be encouraging the new school to do on the basis of what you've learned, if you see what I mean. And I think taking action is important.

Please don't feel guilty though - it sounds like issues are really only coming to a head now. When DS was assessed for ASD the pead talked about 'trigger times' when peers would take a giant leap forward in terms of their sophistication, and my DS may be left behind. One of these was going into primary 4/5 (Scotland sorry, so age 8/9), and again before going up to bigger school. Sometimes it takes others' behaviour to move on to isolate the issues DCs have or face, IYSWIM.

Yes exactly - if we have a dx or strategies to help DS, we can carry them over at least and we'll have a better idea of what we're dealing with. I really want to be doing something.

The school said they were happy to refer but I don't know what we do with that - will they have an EdPsych they use and I can approach as a private patient?

It's really hard not to feel guilty because I've been speaking to the school about his social issues for years and years and always been reassured by the school that he's okay. But he's always struggled and I feel I should've done this sooner.

What you say Wilson about others' behaviour is exactly what his teacher said. His classmates are 'growing up' emotionally and if anything he's going backwards.

He's getting quite scary at home too - have younger DCs and am very worried about the effect it's having on them

I think the school's EP is likely to be an employee of the LA so unlikely to take private work. Maybe put a thread up asking for recommendations of private EPs in your area, London? You certainly can self refer to a private EP. But find out the waiting time for the school EP before shelling out.

Good idea - is this the best board to ask that?

I suspect the waiting time will take us past when we go - and also I have read here that private EPs give fuller/better reports? Do you think that's true?

First of all, I bet your child is lovely - no really, because I have a lovely child who is showing some of the same problems. He is 11. Shows compassion empathy, sweetnatured, academically doing fine, a few friends but no soulmates, escalates playground situations rapidly, persecution complex crossed wth longing to part of gang etc.

I am almost sure it is not ASD because his brother has that and it seems so completely different (his brother is also lovely, but has always been markedly singing from his own hymn sheet..)

Since he went to Secondary and he has now moved on to calling people names in an attempt to break into social groups, or else to punish people for not being nice to him, I decided I had to do something and I am asking for him to be assessed for dyspraxia.

oh dear, better go.

The school has agreed for him to be assessed by the Ed Pysch school has access too (I think they do a few other pupils in one batch) because they are puzzled by his behaviour.

We seem to have spent a long time (since year 3)telling him to be nice to people so that they like him, not to lie, not to interrupt, not to go on and on. But it hasn't had really any noticeable effect except to make him fly into a rage, burst into tears etc, say he's a failure etc, refuse to do homework.

What has worked is trying to build his self esteem, chatting to him, fostering his independence, laying quite clear rules (gettting him to do few simple chores, follow through ie: insist he goes back and has a shower, when he lies and says he has already) I still look at him and feel immensely proud of him. And I hope that sustains him through whatever difficulties he does turn out to have.

Oh and friends have said I need to be stricter with him: I agree, as when you are not very sensitive to other people's needs it has to be spelled out a bit more clearly what boundaries are. But I am aware that he needs to be handled carefully, and I think that, conversely, helps too. So if he lies, I tend not to go on and on about it (I know he tunes out or turns it into negative fuel) but just try and hold him to account quite quickly - right you lied about your homework, so you need to miss this football match and do it now. Cue terrible screams, which I am learnign to take less personally. It is hard, I feel so sorry for him, but I want him to know where he stands.

He also loves strong firm teachers (clear boundaries which he doesn't have to work out for himself), especially men, and has always behaved much better for them, and it brings his best side, his independent free thinking enthusiastic side.

I think the school need to work much harder tackling his self esteem and encouraging him with buddies, even if he is half to blame for some of the "bullying" incidents. Nevertheless they need to protect him from bullying because he is vulnerable just by nature of his lack of social skills. Ds1's school used to try endlessly to solve some of the playground issues by talking about them in circle time (such as they have in Yr 6) But it really didn't make the blindest bit of difference...all talk really. What he needed were activities where he could act out getting on with people in lieu of gettign on with them ifysim, and thence find himself gettign on with them in reality...clubs, hobby groups. Very small close niche groups. I'm hoping that will come in Secondary, although only in fits and starts.

Try and do somethign with him you both enjoy, try not to talk too much about things that worry you about his behaviour but just act out the good social skills with him and I think they gain so much from that, and can carry it forward.

he also loves strong firm teachers - slight hijack but when our ABA consultant was in school the HT said - 'oh WilsonJnr is always better at doing what he's told when I'm firm with him'. To which the ABA said 'maybe that's because when we're 'firm' we use concrete and clear language? Try doing that and being nice at the same time'. which you should have been able to work out for yourself as your an HT of a school that prides itself on inclusion you daft tart

Hijack over....

Okay, just because you have two very different children, does not mean they cannot both have ASD.

wilson I had a bit of a lightbulb moment with ASD child this morning over that too. I said to DH we don't have to explain things any more, we should say, THIS IS THE RULE (very politely), and ds2 would probably take it in (this ws re: inappropriate behaviour - spitting etc) I think long explanations and pyschobabble are not helpful in getting either of my dss to listen and learn..

Boundaries are easy for them,it is just explanations that cause confusion.