Upcoming TAGteach seminar- Moondog recommendation

[moondog]

I have no commercial interest in this. It has been one of the most useful things i have learnt about in my work and this is a very rare opportunity to get some training in this area to help your child with Special Needs with one of the most interesting and dynamic women I have ever met.
It will be hugely enjoyable.

March 17-18. Leyland

I can easily help you with that but I need to show you how.
I don't want it to seem as if I am contributing merely to flog my wares but we wil be covering this in detail on my training day as it is what every parent wants and we have cracked it.

Are you SURE you'll be able to fit everything in?

I'm not one to underestimate parents but it does sound like a lot to cover. I mean I would guess you won't be asking us to get into groups to discuss how we feel about partnership working or anything but still....

I (or rather we) will do our best to give you some level of competence in each area. I can't make you experts in each aspect I cover but I can set you on the way to helping yourelf. We want you to get maximum value for money.

My timing is based on how long it takes us to teach this stuff to the people we work with day in, day out.

There'l be no naval gazing, 'reflection' or touchy feely stuff.
You can do that for nowt in your own time.
Just action.

many behaviour analysts have no interest in getting ABA to be more mainstream.
If they do, their business might just go pffft.
It concerns me greatly.
They watch parents rip themselves to shreds then step in to offer something that in some cases, does nothing to bring the child more into the mainstream of life.

Sorry to jump in here, I'm an ABA therapist.

There are a very small number of ABA practitioners in the UK who are making lots of money. There are a few, but most work on tight margins. Even if consulting fees seem high, these will often be people who are self-employed and probably not bringing in salaries or that are equal to professionals in comprable positions in education or the NHS.

In some cases, ABA consultants do make a lot of money and over-promote expensive home programs, and this is because some families make the very common mistake of confusing cost with quality. There are so many very good consultants and therapists available that are not very expensive and are flexible.

For the self-employed ABA practitioner, it can be very daunting to fight the hostile bureaucracy found in local authorities and health trusts. It is hard for parents and hard for professionals. You can understand why some people do tire of that fight and stick to home programs. Parents and children are reinforcing.

I think it is unfair to suggest that many Behaviour Analysts don't want ABA to be more mainstream. I think most would prefer to work in a field with job security and general respect.

There are lots of self-employed professions that charge a hellova lot less than some of the ABA quotes I have had.

But I don't think that is really the point here. The point I think is that self-employed behaviour analysts shouldn't be the only type.

I believe that the Brisish Association will be a good thing in general for regulation, but I have some concerns about such an agency in the wrong hands becoming gatekeepers for keeping supply low and fees high as some other organisations do. I don't 'think' that is the intention of those who are setting it up but I do wonder what safeguarding aspects there are to avoid this.

I left the BPS for this reason.

Moondog - I think he was tearful because he felt he was being tested. It was also a new school etc. And I forgot about reinforcement so it was just answer and question.

Tbh, I still don't really 'reward' him for answering but he now enjoys telling me about the things I ask - up to a point. Eg. what happened with the bubble mix at playtime? He'd tell me what happened, who did it and what the teacher said...

Can't wait to go on the training day!

Most ABA therapists and consultants are self employed because that is their best option. There isn't an obvious career path in education, health, or social services. There are teachers, SALTS, and psychologists who choose to become behaviour analysts. But it isn't easy for behaviour analysts to fit into the local authority.

What I think is unfair is to take the small minority that have made a good profit on ABA and suggest that many behaviour analysts want to keep ABA out of the mainstream.

The other reason supply is low is because demand is still low and most behaviour analysts aren't making a lot of money. Many therapists on home programs quit after a few years because they can't make ends meet. Setting up as an independent consultant is a slow process, and very few can take the financial losses necessary to establish a practice that allows a living wage. Working on an ABA home program does not offer great job stability. ABA schools are still very few and entry level jobs are highly competitive.

This isn't just about the behaviour of behaviour analysts. This is also about the interest in local authorities in maintaining the status quo. This is about families only hiring the expensive consultants.

My advice to families is to stop paying the big name behaviour analysts with big fees. You'll probably get better service from someone who had more time to devote to your program.

'My advice to families is to stop paying the big name behaviour analysts with big fees. You'll probably get better service from someone who had more time to devote to your program.'

Yes, I agree with this. The thing I think gets my goat the most though is that BA can cover a very broad remit, but home programme EIBI, at least at the quality level that most experience, is not that complicated. The nature of ABA lends itself well to early development curriculums and young children are pretty malleable. I think there is justification for higher fees when the 'problems' are more complex .I.e social interaction in pre-teens etc. But a 3 yr old learning imitation skills IMO cannot justify a £40k annual fee.

moondog can't find your other thread about the parents workshop in April/may. Any ideas when is taking place? Need to fly my mum over to babysit as I don't have anyone else to rely on on Saturday.

starlight you can share my notes/meeting minutes if you are unable to make it

Moondog do you think you'll be able to cater for very different levels of pre-existing expertise and experience on the day? I'd consider myself to be a beginner whereas others on here are clearly further down the line and already knowledgeable. I'd hate to be the one slowing the group down but on the other hand, feel like I'd really benefit.

I can't answer for moondog, but the very nature of evidence based practice is that you don't ever make assumptions about what is already known.

Thank you blue but I'm almost certain to make it to Moondogs.

Moondog who is your seminar for?

On a superficial level, to a casual observer my ds is a bit quirky. But other children and adults close to him find him pretty impossible. He's very passive - passive aggressive.

Getting him to answer some key questions or talk about his day is one thing. My dream is that we go out for a walk and can process and comment on what's happening in real time. Instead our conversations go like this:
Ds - what character in star wars AM I?
OofD - I'm not going to answer that question, you've asked it too many times. Look at the flock of thrushes pecking for food.
Ds - oh, thrushes. Mummy, mummy, what species of penguin AM I?
OofD - I'm not going to answer that either. Look, there's a dog with three legs.

Because we've been working on eye contact I have to make some response if he looks at me when asking meaningless questions.

On a more positive note, I've been using your three finger trick starlight and its gone down well.

That's great.

I know it will drive you nuts but try expanding his conversational skills by tapping into his interests. So, what do you think that 3 legged dog might be called in a star wars film, or do you think yoda would be able to hide in those rushes?

I'm not especially good at it myself but when I make the effort it seems to work with DS.

ABAtherapist

'I think it is unfair to suggest that many Behaviour Analysts don't want ABA to be more mainstream. I think most would prefer to work in a field with job security and general respect.'

You go onto to agree with me here because you say

'In some cases, ABA consultants do make a lot of money and over-promote expensive home programmes'

You're absolutely right thoguh in stating that for many, the amount of job security, recognition and salary in no way reflect the level of expertise. That should change with the founding of the British ABA organisation )jury still out on the name) and hopefully,registration with the Health Professionals Council.

Trying in that case can you give him feedback on how well he did
'Woww, you got 5 out of those 6 questions right! Well done you!' If he can't cope with numbers than you could represent visually some other way. We use ticks.

Oodles

Have you thoguht of allotting a time for him to talk about what he wants to talk about, indulging him completely, thren letting him know that time is up and the following subjects are off the limit? You can signal the time with a Timetimer. One of my teacher colleagues uses this technique very successfully.

Mess

I'd like to think I can cater for all levels of interest/experience. After all that is what I am doing every day in schools. The staff are all different and all work with different kids. The topics I cover will be usable with most children apart from those with a very high level of need (ie the children at the more complex end of the ASD spectrum who are probably not yet verbal. They need more of an EIBI approach which is not what I am offering, althoguh there are plenty of peopel who do that, and very well indeed.

Blue

There are some details under a thread on the Media/Non members thread. I am waiting for Mumsnet to hurry up and give me a quote for an advert to appear on this board with my email address so you can access more details. I have everything sorted-hotel, costs, content but need to be able to tell you about it which obviously I can't do here.
So MUMSNET, PLEASE GET BACK TO ME WITH THE QUOTE WHICH I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR FOR SEVERAL DAYS NOW!!!!

When I get it I can book the hotel who have been patiently holding for me for over a week.

The last time I posted info on here about a seminar (Tony Attwood I think) it was pulled by MNHQ! I was told I wasn't allowed to post this type of info in the general chat area and had to put it in some special area where no-one would see it When I queried this, having put info loads of times in the past I was ignored!