At what point do you think special school?

[Gottalovecosta]

We are going through the process of diagnosis with my 5 year old son - already has diagnosis of hypermobility/dyspraxia now diagnosing ASD/ADHD. He is in reception, and struggles greatly with school or indeed any social situation.

In October, they asked to start him on half days, so he went 9-12.15pm, leaving after lunch. Last week they said they struggled to accomodate him at lunchtime due to his challenging behaviour, so now I pick him up at 12.
They have started making musings about special schools. We've had a meeting and looked round one, and we're seeing another on friday. I find it all so confusing, how do you make this decision?

I know he's really struggling and would like him in mainstream but what if that's not right for him, what if special school is better, or vice versa?
His LSA is on child protection training days on 21/22 March so they've asked if I'd mind keeping him off. I've said yes, I don't mind but things seem to be getting worse, not better IYSWIM?

Has he got a statement? Reason I am asking is DS school was VERY quick to suggest "maybe he would be better off somewhere else like a special school" and that was before anything was put into place.

DS is part time being integrated back to full time now he has a statment of needs

I would find it concerning that they seem to be continually sending him home instead of keeping him in school. DS2 has been a challenge from day 1 of reception (he's in Yr1 now, with FT 1:1) and the school has never sent him home simply because of his challenging behaviour. They adapt, make sure if his scheduled TA is not available that there is another working with him. He works regularly with 3 different TAs, although one does the bulk of it, plus he is familiar with the class TAs, so if for some reason one of his regular TAs can't be there, there are a couple TAs that he is familiar enough with to work with comfortably. We agreed with the school that it was good for him to get used to dealing with a few different TAs for this very reason.

Our school initially suggested ("off the record" as they said) that we look into special schools when he was in reception. At the time, he was still being evaluated, and he was coping with the 1:1 and we weren't comfortable with the idea of moving him to another school. Now, however, his annual review is coming up, he's had a majority of his evaluation done by the paed, and we're pushing to get him into a local special school that is very good. It's not a perfect fit, but we feel it's better for him than mainstream, as he has many sensory issues as well, and the larger class sizes continually seem to be assaulting his senses (noise, people, visually) and distracting or upsetting him.

We worry about whether or not everything is a good decision for him - SS or MS? If SS, then which one (couple locally)? Academic issues? Behaviour issues? Some days I swear it makes my head spin. But I think it's just a matter of getting all the info you can on what's available and see what you think will be the best fit for your child. It is difficult though.

I do think that you need to address the issue of the current school sending your DS home frequently though. Our DS2 has dx of ADHD/DCD/ASD/hypermobility, along with sensory problems and speech and language problems, plus he's the impulsive ADHD, so he's a runner with no regard for safety or danger at all. Unless your DS is extremely violent or something, surely they should be able to cope with him and develop some strategies for any challenging behaviour.

I don't know whether your ds would be better in ms or SS, but I can tell you with certainty that the one he is in is crap.

Star is absolutely correct.

Seems present school is just babysitting him at their convenience. When did your ds turn 5? Legally he should be in school full time the term after he turns 5. It is an idea to look around at other schools/options. Are there any ASD units attached to mainstream schools around you? That might be an alternative.

Have you started a paper trail? It might make it easier for you to transfer to a special school, if that is what you want, if you have the evidence that present school is not coping. (Also helps in applying for a statement if you don't have one yet).

Now he's 5, every single afternoon he is not in school is an unofficial exclusion. This is actually illegal so gives YOU the ammunition to either get a statement OR get the statement amended to list a school YOU think can be arsed to help your child.

Time for lots of research .

As a starting shot send an email to the HT and the LEA requesting a home tutor to cover the hours your child should be at school but isn't. In your current "unofficial exclusion" situation, this money should come out of school funds therefore this request should act as a real shake up of their current frnakly lazy attitude. It should kick start some real action planning on how to help your child.

All kids are entitled to a fulltime education by law from 5. Your child is not being allowed to access this basic right. As a parent funding issues and other excuses are not your problem, all that matters is how soon they will deliver on their statutory duty to educate your child.

If you haven't already apply for a statement in the same letter you request the home tutor. The statementing process will put pressure on the pead, EP etc to complete any assessments in a timely manner. Do the application yourself a it ensure you are kept in the loop for all updates as assessments happen - this helps a LOT to reduce the stress of it all.

I think you need to think about what you want gottalovecosta.

I agree with everything that has been said, and you could start quoting the disability discrimination law at them if they don't do something to ensure he has the education he is entitled to.

On the other hand, it could be a big fight, and are you prepared to do it?? I know it is hard, but next time they ask you to keep him off, try saying that he is legally entitled to be in school and ask what arrangements are THEY making for him to be there, and keep repeating it.

Thank you for the advice/ammunition
I have arranged a meeting with the Head on Thursday morning to discuss this, so far they keep repeating he doesn't need a statement, I'm going to let them know in writing if they won't start the statementing process then I will. I didn't realise he would be eligible for a home tutor, I've just been doing stuff at home with him and continuing the EYFS (I was a childminder so know the ins and outs) - I'm going to request he is NOT kept off school in March, it seems silly to think they won't even let him try, they just don't want him in.
It feels like they are pushing for special school without me wanting it in particular, I feel so confused.
The reasons for keeping him off school is that he hits/kicks staff/other children so is a 'danger to others'.
Time for some research myself, I think, thank you for the advice, it's much appreciated.

Just put in writing that you'll no longer be picking him up at lunch time so they will have to find adequate provision.

If they call you ask them if he has been excluded and if so, you'll pop into the HTs office on the way TO collect him to pick up the paperwork that states this.

BUT ultimately this is not a school to be fighting long term. This is a placement that is shit enough for you to use to collect plenty of evidence if what your ds NEEDS. When you get your statement, you'll be able to name any MS you like even if they are full.

I'm going to let them know in writing if they won't start the statementing process then I will.

That is abosultely the right attitude to have and the right thing to do.

Just a thought - I asked the head what would happen if I were to refuse to pick him up, and they said they'd legally exclude him - so, they can't do this then?
To answer a question before, he was 5 in October so is already in the term after his 5th birthday.

They are pushing for special school because they are not prepared to pull the stops out and put his needs first.

Dont worry I did the exact same thing you did and thought my son couldnt cope and so had him PT it was only supposed to be temporary till they put adequate provision in place and turned out it lasted nearly 6 months........

They tried the lunchtime stunt too

Now he has a statement I made a meeting and started it off with ok so we need to get him back FT now. They couldnt make up their mind which day was best, teach was off one day so that wasnt good etc. In the end I plainly told them he was doing 30 mins a day DS is happy and wants to try and we are starting on such a day and increasing it by 15 mins a week, and walked away.

They had a trip today and said if DS couldnt handle it then he would have to be picked up early. My reply this time instead of the usual "ok" was no he is entitled to be educated and we are trying to stick to routine here so HIS TA will have to stay behind with him and I will pick him up after his 30 mins extra. After all she is is 1 to 1 not the rest of the class. They didnt like it but they couldnt really say otherwise.

They have the funding with the statement for his 1 to 1.

I would be adamant and blunt and tell them if he doesnt need a statement then there is no problem with him being FT is there?

I think the main point is that as far as exclusion goes, you need to have it in writing, as a paper trail, to show that the school cannot meet his needs. If you allow them to send him home without officially excluding him, they are getting around that (and not being forced to deal with him).

AH! also if they then start phoning you to pick him up just say on the phone "so he is being excluded this afternoon? I will need a letter or email confirming this please and the reason before I take him out of school"

cross posted with Triggles!

Sorry, but if they are suggesting special school, how on earth are they also saying he doesn't need a statement? He will need a statement to go to SS! They are really messing you around.

Legal exclusion is a GOOD thing. I know it feels personal and shameful perhaps but don't feel stigmatised.

A legal exclusion is an effective way if getting the attention you need to start making progress if your child has SEN.

And you have to get to the bottom of why they are suggesting SS. Do they mean he needs a SS, or do they mean they simply want him at a different school. Because afaic see, there aren't really any special schools suitable for your ds' type of profile, at least not state ones.

I can't understand how on the one hand they can say he doesn't need a Statement, and on the other, say they can't cope with him if he doesn't have 1:1 from an LSA .
He would need a Ststement to apply for a Special School place anyway - again, how they can suggest specialist provision and say he doesn't need a Statement, just doesn't make sense.
If a staff member is on a training course, then they should be providing cover, just as they would for any essential member of staff.
Might also be worth you talking to your local Parent Partnership - they can guide you through the whole process.

At 5 exclusion is a good thing as it gives you concrete evidence. Any threats they make mean Jack as they are already excluding him, they are just trying to keep their failure to educate off the school records (hence why I suggested copying you tutor request letter to the LEA!). There's not even a bluff to call here their behavior is that shoddy.

If he doesn't need a statement, then they should be teaching him for the full day. Be busy tomorrow with a prior comittment. If they are saying they can't handle him for a full day then:-

1/ what support does he need to stay do a full day at his current school?
2/ what support would he need at an alternate school?
3/ Until you know what support he needs how does anyone know if he needs a special school as there are so many different types?
4/ To get a special school place he definately needs a statement as for 99% of them it's a key admissions criteria. Why then does he not need a statement?

As you can see the above questions are circular in nature but need to be asked and the answers formally recorded in that meeting so you have a paper trail. Simply put at the moment they aren't attempting to do the job they are paid to do and are arrogant enough to try and fob you off into the bargain with silly threats. They've already given you the evidence you need for a statement, which is good as YOU get to name the school you would like as part of the statement process.

Apply for the statement today as it takes 6 months to get one if all goes smoothly and there are no delays. You want to able to start the next academic year with everything in place, (including the recruitment of a trained TA if needed etc) and all your ducks in a row. Already you are in danger of cutting this fine.

p.s School exclusion has meaning. For a 5 year old, the general public wonders about the competence of the adults.

For us the options seemed to be:

MS with support - DD1 would have needed full 1:1 at all times. The TA would have spent half of the day trying to keep her in the classroom, then the other half taking her out of the classroom to do SALT, OT, etc.

Special School - Labelling her, sending her off on a bus.

Then we looked around the SS and realised that they were good with children like her.

We chose Special School (we were lucky because the LA wanted her to go to SS, but all professionals didn't think she would get a place, so said MS+support. That she would have a statement wasn't ever really in doubt, tbh.)

At special school, she isn't special, yet she is the most special child in the world. If that makes sense. She's just one of the kids. No more or less work than any other.

At special school, she can be. She has blossomed. She can be asked to take the register to the office and then go to the hall for assembly. This is because a) the site is secure (she can't endanger herself) b) they have CCTV! (if she runs off, they know where she is) c) everyone at the school is one big team. The reception staff will remind her what she's been asked to do. All the staff know all the children.

The oddest thing, is that when she started, I knew she'd be one of the most able children there. I imagined that she would stick out like a sore thumb. The biggest shock was when I dropped her off at kids club (after school club) and she was one of three girls. One was sitting in a wheelchair/buggy, one was stood flapping and jumping, and one was fiddling with their fingers. I remember looking at them, and realising that DD1 was just like them.

We all get used to our own children, sometimes it's a real shock to realise that they fit at special school.

Lougle - reading your post is EXACTLY the same reasons why we are pushing to get DS2 into a special school. Thank you for that as, if you don't mind, I am going to use a bit of it to help me put together what I want to say at our annual review next week. I suspect we might get pushed towards MS with 1:1, where DS2 can't just be a child and learn and enjoy, but will spend most of his time distressed and overwhelmed.

Triggles/Gottalovecosta, the LA wanted SS for DD1. I hope that it was partly to do with my summary of her needs.

I told them: "Whatever you do with DD1, it is going to be expensive. But she's worth it. If you spend lots of money now, you might have to spend less later. She's a wonderful girl who just needs a lot of help to understand her world."

Try to think of things your DS needs which points to SS rather than MS. Things like whole school communication. EG. At DD's school every member of staff uses Makaton at all times, regardless of the level of verbal ability a child has. DD1 can speak (she has S&L delay/disorder, but is verbal) but she resorts to signing at home if she's very stressed. Just by increasing her signing ability, her stress has decreased because she has the option of speaking, speaking and signing, or just signing (she rarely 'just' signs, but sometimes).

Another thing that DD1's school does is to do with language. The SALT does communication groups, then the teaching staff use the focus of the group to reinforce it all day, every day.

DD1, despite her learning difficulties is very clever and quite socially manipulative. She got quite dependent on her 1:1 in MS preschool & they ended up letting her dictate to them. At the SS she is in a class of 9 with 5-6 staff. They can encourage independence without sacrificing a high level of help.

Think about sensory issues, too.

Basically, SS is expensive. It is by far cheaper to send a child to MS with 1:1 than SS. So think of the things that make SS more effective.

Also, think of the reverse angle. What makes MS 'incompatible with the education of other children.'

If you want SS, then refuse to have your child excluded unofficially. Let it be the school's problem. They'll have to formally exclude him. Paper trail.

The big tipping point will be behaviour, generally. A placid child who is 4 years behind isn't as big a problem as a child with behavioural problems who is 1 year behind!

Stick to your guns and play the long game.