dyslexia or speech and language delay?

[babyinarms]

My ds aged 7 was diagnosed a having receptive and expressive language delay in nov and is presently attending speech and language therapy sessions. An educational psychologist review has been recommended to determine his over all ability. I presume they will be looking for conditions such as dyslexia.
Having read up on dyslexia I can see a lot of his issues highlighted as symptoms of dyslexia. So I suppose what i'm trying to find out is how dyslexia is diagnosed and is the treatment the same as that for his language delay?
Could he just have a speech and language delay or is that always a symptom of something else?
The school are not too pushed about ed paycholgist review as they feel they now have something to work on and that ds has enough on his plate at the moment. However SALT has recommended it.Not sure what to do for the best!
Will I let him continue as he is or will I get this review ?It's just all so confusing at the moment and a little frustrating to be honest!
Any advice would be most welcome. Thanks.

The EP probably wont look for dyslexia unless they are specifically asked to.

And even if he does think he has dyslexia they probably wont write it in the report unless pressed to.

There isn't really a dyslexia test that you pass or fail. Nor is there any treatment (at school or on the NHS) for dyslexia.

But dyslexia is very different to speech problems. Although you can of course have both. Dyslexia is about having problems with reading and/or spelling.

You can have just a speech delay.

Push for the EP report if the SALT recommended it. It's very hard to get an EP report done through school, because they have so few hours available to them. The school can only get a handful of children assessed each year, and there are dozens they would like to. So you needed to push.

You also need to know what condition the SALT was thinking of. There are certainly some conditions which are more likely to exist with speech delay. But speech delay is not a normal symptom of dyslexia.

Has he had a hearing test?

zzzzz - Sorry. I didn't realise. I'll look forward to reading your full post :)

IndigoBell - I have read about "treatment" for dyslexia that is being developed - it is computer-based brain training and is apparently very successful. A few hours of treatment and progress is made.

Bonsoir - there are loads of very succesful therapies for dyslexia. But none of them are available on the NHS or in school.

My son had speech delay and is severely dyslexic.

IMO the 2 are related.

Good news is, there is lots you can do to help x

(ds1 had an EP assessment last year. For us it was a completely pointless exercise unforunately as none of the - rather vague - recommendations have been implemented )

OK, So you guys have got me intrigued now :)

Reading defn's of dyslexia here. Most of them don't mention anything about speech delay - but a few do.

I think a likely explanation is that both speech delay and difficulties with reading are caused by the same thing - rather than one causes the other.

indigo I am no expert (as you know!) but in the case of my ds1 its hard to see how his speech delay didnt affect his ability to learn phonics - and therefore learn to read and write.

IMO Its all connected...the ability to form the words, to hear the sounds in each word and make the jump from sounding out C-A-T to reading fluently is a massive one and one not easily made if you struggle to form and hear the sounds in the first place.

babyinarms

The real issue is what the actual cognitive issues are that cause "the receptive and expressive language delay"
Dyslexia is not a condition, it is the symptom of one or more information processing deficits / disorders. Dyslexia is a man made problem and is language dependent (subtly different cognitive issues cause dyslexia in different langauges).
Dyslexia is about having problems with a man made communication system the visual notation of speech, or decoding and recoding the graphic symbols society chooses to represent the sounds of speech.
There are two type of dyslexia Alexia, acquired dyslexia, which is the result of brain injury, substance abuse, stroke, dementia, or some form of progressive illness. Developmental dyslexia is of genetic origin, and has three cognitive subtypes: auditory,visual, and attentional. Which means that an auditory processing disorder, a visual processing disorder, an attention disorder or any combination of the three can cause the dyslexic symptom.

If your DS has a diagnosed "receptive and expressive language delay" then the issues causing that delay would also be the shared cognitive issues that can cause developmental dyslexia. There are many areas of overlap and you will probably need a multi discipline (multi - profession) team to help identify all the possible underlying issues. And hopefully they will be able to work together to help your DS.

dolfrog - what do you mean, "dyslexia is a man-made problem"?! Dyslexia is a genetically determine (ie largely inherited) neurological dysfunction.

Bonsoir

The various cognitive issues that cause the dyslexic symptom as you say have a genetic origin, and are various forms of neurological dysfunction.
However dyslexia only exists in societies that use a man made communication system the visual notation of speech, as a means of communication. In societies that do not use a man made writing system as a form of communication there is no dyslexia, however the underlying medical conditions that can cause the dyslexic symptom do exist.
So all you have a diagnosis of dyslexia, need to identify the underlying cognitive cause or causes of their dyslexic symptom, which tend to have more serious symptoms than the dyslexic one.

I agree with Becaroo, that phonological awareness can affect both speech sound production and learning phonics. Obvious there is the separate issue about over-reliance on phonics to teach UK children to read....

Other issues beyond reading and writing that can indicate dyslexia include problems with a sense of time, personal organisation, map reading and other things associated with higher executive function. A dyslexic in a non-literate society is likely to still be known as the most scatty one in the village for example

Three underlying dyslexia causes as dollfrog said -
Visual - go to a proper optrometist (not the high st vision test) and get stuff like visual tracking issues identified - there are excercises a child can do that can signficantly improve things for this group. Some children may be prescribed tinted lenses etc to help also.

Attention - a pead will identify this and at the extreme end a diagnosis of add or adhd may be given. Many parents have made some improvements in this area by dietry changes.

Auditory Not just the standard hearing test. How well does the child process what he hears? This is a tougher nut than visual issues to resolve or cure, partly due to the lack of available specialists to help either NHS or private, but again there are therapies that can help.

If you can establish which singly underlying cause or causes are the key issues surrounding your individual child's dyslexic symptom then both you and the school can start to make headway in helping.

My son has receptive language difficulties, but visually he's hawk eyes, so school use a very visual style with lots and lots of visual prompts and aids to help him learn. Another child might have the opposite problem in which case that child would never make progress by being taught using the methods that suit my lad so well. Yet both children are "dyslexic". Lots of time & effort is wasted by many schools through not understanding the underlying causes of an individual child's dyslexia.

If the EP can establish the child's strengths then these can be used as "hook" to help pull up the areas of deficit by skilled educators. This can only be done by administering standard cognitive tests such as WISC. Make sure you get the full unedited scores yourself as these can be very valuable to you for helping you decide what home therapies etc to implement to help your child.

zzzzz

"Yes dyslexia is only apparent in societies where language is written, but presumabley the same individuals are present in that society just not disadvantaged by their deficit/difference."

There will be those who have an auditory processing disorder (listening disability), those who have visual processing issues, and those who have attention issues all of these various conditions and the same various combinations existing all human groupings. But dyslexia is only about having problems with using a man made writing system as a form of communication.

I am dyslexic, and the cause of my dyslexia is my auditory processing disorder (APD) which has more serious problems than dyslexia. There are others who have various visual processing problems including Mears-Irlen syndrome as a sensitity to specific light frequencies. There others who have attention issues who have various forms of ADHD, which includes those who have ADD. These deficits, disorders exist regardless of the communication society chooses to use.

So a diagnosis of dyslexia is merely one of screening processes for these multiple cognitive problems, which need to be identified.

And other man made activities such as driving a car will highlight the existance of a range of disabilities that can prevent people from being able to easily and successfully learn to drive, but we do not call this problem an specific disorder. So trying to use a man made communication system is similar.

dolfrog - Sorry for butting in but my DS2 (11) is servery Dyslexic. But I have always thought that this was the tip of the iceberg (so to speak)

He was verbally dysbraxic when he was little (causing speech delay in his case).

What interests me in your reply is:
So a diagnosis of dyslexia is merely one of screening processes for these multiple cognitive problems, which need to be identified.

He is statemented for 25 hours a week and has a whole host of professionals but how do I go about finding out how to screen for multiple cognitive problems?

Any advice would be welcome. thanks.

WESM

Dyslexics, diagnosed and undiagnosed, have problems with the visual notation of speech. So those who have had problems developing and / or acquiring speech can have problems with any form of notation of speech visual or otherwise. So for instance in my own case and these case of my family members, Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) cause our speech related problems learning new words, and processing the speech others, which in turn causes us to be dyslexic when using the English version of the Latin Alphabet writing system as a notation of speech.

As Prof. David Moore stated in one of his 2006 research papers from the same symptoms it is possible to get 4 different diagnosis depending on the type of diagnostic professional you are referred to. Which is why the Medical Research Council guidelines for an APD assessment and diagnosis requires a Multi -Discipline assessment (audiologist, speech and language PATHOLOGIST, psychologist) to assess and diagnose the APD disorder or disorders, and to gain an understanding of the problems these disorders can cause.

In an ideal world those who are identified as being possible dyslexics should be assessed outside of the education system so that the medical / clinical issues causing the dyslexic symptom can be identified and diagnosed. So the Multi Discipline assessment teams such initially consist of:- an audiologist to assess auditory processing issues, an optometrist to assess visual processing issues, and a psychiatrist to assess any attention issues. Once the underlying issues have been identified then the educational psychologists and teachers need to understand the nature of the diagnosed learning barriers and develop teaching programs and methods to est suite each childs diagnosed needs.

The problem starts with the educational professionals who tend to think they know it all and so not like to work with other types of professional. Which seems to be a problem across most of the professions which should be working together in the best interests of our children.

"The problem starts with the educational professionals who tend to think they know it all and so not like to work with other types of professional. Which seems to be a problem across most of the professions which should be working together in the best interests of our children."

Absolutely agree!

thanks dolfrog for your reply.

It's all so very complex.
I have 1 child with receptive/expressive language difficulties and hearing loss, maybe apd, who is a superb reader and speller years above her age group...
And another child with no language or hearing difficulties who is a struggling reader and terrible speller years below her age group.
I can not quite get my head around it.

Hi all Having awful trouble with internet connection tonight so this is my 5th attempt to send this post.....wish me luck!
Thanks a million for all your replies. I agree it is all very complex indeed and there does seem to be a lot of overlaps too!
I did have DS hearing checked by an audiologist and that ruled out any problems there so the next step was SALT review which has lead us to where we are today.
He has always been a very well behaved but very shy boy. We put this down to him being like DH as a kid and found it a bit endearing but now realize it was due to the fact he had a problem following conversations and getting his point across
His main problem areas include sequencing his ideas, using descriptive language, concepts like before and after, following instructions(will do 1 out of 3 things asked of him) and using conjunctions.
Lately I have noticed when he is reading he often confuses the small words . He also just reads word for word and does not grasp the meaning of what he just read. His writing is neat enough and he does reverse the usual culprits like d for b and p for q , but I think that' s not such a big deal at this age (7).
Anyway thanks so much for the great advice , I will definately look into getting a EP review and take it from there. Maybe it's not even dyslexia the SALT is concerned with that was my take on it , but maybe she is more concerned with his IQ and working memory. I will ask her Friday when I see her.
Thanks again for the invaluable advice and i hope all your DC's get the help and support they need also x

babyinarms

From issues you mention in your last post you seem to be describing APD.
"problem following conversations and getting his point across"
"His main problem areas include sequencing his ideas, using descriptive language, concepts like before and after, following instructions(will do 1 out of 3 things asked of him) and using conjunctions."
"He also just reads word for word and does not grasp the meaning of what he just read"
All of these issues can be part of having and auditory processing disorder, which can be an underlying cause of both a speech and language delay and developmental dyslexia.
"DS hearing checked by an audiologist and that ruled out any problems" this only eliminates hearing impairments not APD which is about having problems processing what you hear. Most who have APD have perfect hearing.

So may be you should seek a referral for an APD assessment for both DS and DH.

Thanks a million dolfrog will look into that assessment.Its all so complicated but the main thing is that ds gets the right help and support. I just really want to make sure I get it right for him and that he grows into a happy well adjusted boy and reaches his potential ! Thanks again x