Ed Psych. assessment can u help.

[supermum98]

My second son has just been assessed and he seems to have below average short term auditory memory and working memory. Can u tell me the difference between the two and what strategies can we use to help him. The report doesn't make that clear. This was a hour visit at school. Is it worth me going privately to get a full diagnostic Ed Psych. assessment with more detail? The tests seemed quite crude and not that comprehensive.

Yep. It can do. I am a bit further down the line from you and I can honestly say I dont care AT ALL what paeds, teachers, SENcos, etc think of me anymore...as long as I help my son thats all I care about.

The NHS paed we saw was very similar to the one you mention...just so...disinterested. I have rarely felt so angry as I did after the first (last!!) appt with him. You wait so long for these appts, getting yourself all worked up and worried and then.....nothing. Just platitudes and meaningless doctor-speak.

Yes, Bec it makes complete sense. As I said - whatever helps you.

I would still push for school to bring in the LA Ed Pysch. I know that LA Ed Pyschs are generally crap but it gets on their radar screen. Every report and assessment is useful. For instance, in HE they insist on an Ed Pysch report done before the age of 16 before they will provide a disabled student with support. That's what I mean by having to work with the system.

NHS Paeds too are generally crap. The one we saw was a joke. But community paeds are not specialists - they are just generalists in a whole range of childhood ailments and conditions. They are the gateway to the specialists in whatever condition you child has. You wouldn't expecy your local Kwik-Fit to tune up your Porsche, you'd take it to a Porsche specialist.

Our useless pink-haired Com Paed refused to refer DS to Communication and Language Disorder Unit which could have helped him. We didn't waste any further time with her and went private.

A dx is important and becomes more so in later school years. In junior you can have a close relationship with school who know each child and understands their difficulties. At senior school it becomes much more anonymous when you child is just one of hundreds and noone is particularly closely engaged with them, as different teachers take different subjects. A 'label' is needed to explain to all these people what the problem is and how he can be helped.

So, I would definitely push for an LA Ed Pysch assessment and would definitely push for a dx by a consultant (not com paed) private or NHS, and ask for a written assessment of the child's difficultues and what support they recommend to overcome them - even if, behind the scenes, you honestly think they (as I did) that they are crap.

wet We may well get the asd dx from the private paed before he starts middle school (next sept). Not sure yet. I just dont see what difference an LA EP report would make tbh...they do the same tests after all? And his school wont refer anyway as we have shot ourselves in the foot slightly as ds1 is now - finally, after all these therapies!! - making academic progress, so they will argue he does not meet the criteria of the SENCOP with respect of applying for SA!!

I know I can apply for SA myself, but as I say, he wont get it. Even kids who have much more severe issues are denied SA.....and I know what you will say "appeal/tribunal" - but not all appeals are won The fighting and stress parents have to go through to get help for their dc from the people who are paid to help them amazes me.

And, honestly? I am pretty tired of it all. What we are doing is working. School dont even know we are doing TH btw...they were so hostile at the last meeting when I was talking about stuff I was doing to try and help ds1 (earobics, apples and pears etc) that I just cant be bothered. I would rather just get on with it, you know?

Supermum,

I'm afraid I can't really help all that much with the specifics of what each test was for or what the results mean, but I would say you are perfectly within your rights to contact the EP yourself and ask for clarification, as it should have been in the report.

My ds had a WISC assessment done by the EP and the results came with a breakdown of each test he did, what it was for, what his results where and what that meant for him educationally.

My ds also suffers from low self-esteem, particularly around maths, despite being highly academic and able. Things the school are doing include:

• spending a period of time differentiating work to make sure he would be successful and then rewarding him (merit marks and the opportunity to do something he enjoyed - in his case free time at the end of ICT lessons)

• giving lots of positive verbal feedback regularly throughout the lesson and again at the end of the lesson

• helping him to understand his 'position' within his maths group and that he deserves to be where he is in that group (he is on the second table of the top group and the only children above him are on the G&T register)

• only ever writing positive remarks on his written work and being very careful how they word comments in general making sure they never use negative phrases or words like 'wrong'

A lot of his self-esteem issues come out of high anxiety levels in general and in order to address this, he has a session once a week with an inclusion teacher specifically to discuss any worries he may have. Anything that arises from that can then be dealt with swiftly by his teachers etc.

Do you know the name of the assessment he did? There's actually a lot of information online about the various tests if you google and you might be able to find a bit more by putting either that or the individual test names into google.

As for being on the SEN register - if they have brought in the EP he has to be on the register at SA+. In which case, in most school he should have an Individual Education Plan (IEP), which is reviewed, perhaps termly or half termly and you should be involved in the meetings to draw up the targets for this. You should also be given a copy to sign and approve. Some schools don't do IEPs, but they still can't buck their responsiblity to support children with additional needs and must be able to prove that they are taking any additional needs into account in lesson planning, differentiation and target setting etc. They will also need records on his progress in the areas of difficulty.

Bec

The private dx would be a useful thing to have. If not to use now, to have 'up your sleeve' for the future. I used to call DS's formal dx our insurance policy' against idiots who were hell bent on telling is that he had no problems.

You may find that in middle school you will be dealing with differnet people who may be more inclined to help. I hope so.

But ultimately the main barrier to support is what you've already identified - the LA is the judge (identifies SENs), jury (assess SEN support) and executioner (denies SEN support), all financially driven.

Until that changes, individual parents will be forced to find their own path through the maze.

I will go and dig out what I was given about ds1's tests and see if any of it might be relevant or help explain your ds's results, but bear in mind my ds did the WISC IV and I don't know what your ds's assessment was.

Right, this is what they told me about Working Memory:

Working Memory Index (PRI)

The subtests administered are a measure of working memory abilities.

Tasks that require working memory require the ability to temporarily retain information in memory, perform some operation or manipulation with it and produce a result.

Working memory involves attention, concentration, mental control and reasoning. Research suggests that working memory is an essential component of other higher order cognitive processes, as well as being closely related to achievement and learning.

The rest of it related directly to what ds's results meant. In his case he has high average working memory (which seems right as he can do mental arithmetic at an amazing speed) but his processing speed is below the 15 percentile, so although he can retain the information and manipulate it in his head, it takes him a long time to process all the necessary info in the first place. I've been told there isn't a massive amount that can be done to improve processing speed and as a result ds now gets additional time to complete tests, assessments and exams etc.

I know its a bit hit and miss, but have you tried googling working memory results explanation and seeing if that throws up anything?

Sorry, all this is a bit rushed - I have dh standing over me nagging me to get moving, as we're supposed to be going out. I will come back later to read more carefully and see if I can find anything out that might help you a bit more.

Hoping in the meantime that some of the others might stop fighting for five minutes and offer some advice.

I hope so too.

Thanks moosemama, that's really helped. Appreciate time taken.
I was wondering where processing speed came into all this. I didn't know if below average working memory effectively meant that he had processing difficulties. However, it sounds from what you are saying they are seperate and distinct. I did ask for processing speed to be assessed but she has focused on BAS and specific tests for working memory, which I also requested. I have heard mind-mapping can help, with such problems do you use it? Also any advice about what to say to him. I have told him that he is very intelligent, the tests have shown that.
He says he is not as she didn't test me on what I do at school and her tests were easy. Do I tell him he has dyslexia or what? I maybe need to ask ed. Psych. I will go and ask Senco next week about IEP's and targets. THey are a white elephant in our school but I've got to try. I have been told that schools don't have to do IEP's anymore is that true?

Bec I will quote the judge, jury and executioner very apt. it makes me smile.
I am inclined to agree with you, the LA Ed Psych. takes a snap shot view,
she is very cosy with the school and I'm sure will only advise what they can manage, budget or otherwise. I know I will get a more comprehensive assessement done if I go privately and I will take advice from others about getting 'the right person'. Also Ed Psyc will not have any preconceived ideas about my child.

supermum Yes, thats my view of LA EPs too tbh. In fairness to some schools (and it pains me to defend them ) their sen/sn budgets are miniscule and they cant help my ds1's dyslexia...they havent got the knowledge/time/resources to do so.

Best of luck x

leonie I respect your viewpoint, however I really dont consider vitamins, healthy diet and OT exercises particularly "alternative" tbh. And there are loads of computer programmes to help with vision and auditory problems (eg: earobics etc which dyslexia action use) I am not smearing ds1 in goatsblood and sitting him in a pentangle for goodneess sake!!!!

supermum My son also has very poor processing speed - 11th centile. Mind mapping is great - I have used it when doing my OU courses!

Have you got any simple games like Simon Says? I have it as an app on my smartphone...very good.

I have found something that works well with ds1 is asking him to think about/write instructions for whatever he is doing...so a game of snakes and ladders for instance. It makes him think about all the separate tasks you have to do and in what order. One of his issues is assuming that people know what he means all the time (which of course they dont!)

Why "too far"??? leonie

I have done both and I know which one has been more helpful/effective!!! I had such high hopes for the EP report. I really did - I thought that the EP would do a good job. I thought that when ds1 got a dx the school would help him. I thought it would help solve everything.

It didnt.

And I am not the only one, sadly.

There seems to be a lot of confusion over what TH is tbh. Its not a cult, its not mainstream certainly, BUT lots of now traditional routes werent mainstream once!!!

I guess what I am trying to say - perahps badly - is dont put all your eggs in one basket. Keep an open mind. Dont assume that the people who are paid to help them can/will help them. Dont assume that hcps have your dcs best interests at heart because all too often as wet said its about financial constraints.

It sucks but thats how it is.

Why not do both leonie????

I guess thats my question.

coff

Would have to be "Born this way" by Lady Gaga Dc's are bog fans.

I got moves, baby

"big" fans even

ironically that is DS favourite Lady Gaga tune!

Hi Supermum, I'm back.

I've quickly read your other thread now and see that your ds is older than mine and already has a statement. If he has a Statement, I don't think he would have IEPs as his targets will be on the statement - but I could be wrong about that. It sounds like his school are in the 'we don't do IEPs camp' and there is no requirement on them to do them, but they do have to follow the same process in as much as setting regular attainable targets, differentiating teaching, monitoring progress against targets and ensuring that they are providing any additional support you ds may require to overcome barriers to learning and achievement.

Ordinarily I would say that if you feel they aren't meeting the requirement stipulated on his Statement you should approach the LEA, but if the EP is backing them up, you might have a bit of a fight on your hands. It sounds like the wording on his Statement might not be tight enough and therefore gives the school too much leaway in terms of how they provide the support. It might be worth contacting your local Parent Partnership and discussing it with them.

I found the following quote on the Ace-Ed website:

"If your child has a statement of SEN and you are unhappy about the way their extra help is given, you will generally complain to the local authority and then to the Ombudsman. Appeals against decisions about extra help made by the local education authority are made to the SEN and Disability Tribunal."

Ipsea is another good place to go for advice and has some information on the linked page about what to do if you feel your child isn't getting the provision set down in their statement.

Regarding what to tell your ds, with mine I told him (who also said the tests were easy) that the tests seemed easy, but that they aren't easy for all children and that the results told us that he's very bright and particuarly good with words. I then went on to explain that, while he is very bright, some bits of his brain work a little differently than other peoples' and we are looking into ways of helping him with anything that he might find a bit difficult, so that he can show everyone how intelligent he really is.

I still think it sounds like a conversation with the EP to talk through the results would be a good idea. Not sure how open they'd be to that, but it would at least be a good place to start. I think sometimes the professionals just forget that we don't all know what they know and need things explained in more detail and with less jargon.

I also think - just my personal opinion though - that a private EP report from a good, recommended EP with whom you have discussed the issues and highlighted specific areas of concern eg processing speed would be a good idea, especially if you have no joy with the LA EP.

I'm afraid I don't know much about dyslexia, some of the other posters do, but seem a tad er, pre-occupied at the moment. I do know that the British Dyslexia Association groups in local areas can do an initial screening test either for free or a small fee - I think its £50 in our area. This is just a basic screening test and would only give a probability of whether or not a child may have Dyslexia. You can then go on and book a full assessment, which will be a lot more expensive, but much more thorough, identify areas of strength and weakness and make recommendations on what support should be given. There is some information about that on the BDA website I've linked to.

Finally, I've had a quick google and found the following for you:

A pdf of a Paper entitled "How does working memory work in the classroom?"

Article in Science Daily about the same study.

Teachingexpertise.com article which discussed "What can be done to minimise the learning difficulties resulting from working memory impairments?"

Also found out that Dr Tracy Alloway who was at Durham University, not sure if she still is, could be University of Stirling now, is someone who has specific interests in and has done a lot of research on the implications of poor working memory in education. The first paper I linked to was her work. She has her own website here with a contact email address on the homepage.

A lot of her research is available to read online if you google her name + working memory.

Finally, just keep fighting. Its sounds like the school is stonewalling you and if changing schools isn't an option, you are probably going have to make a few enemies and kick a few backsides into touch to get your ds's rights and needs met appropriately.

I speak as someone who's sons' headmaster runs in the opposite direction when he sees her coming.

coff I LOVE Gaga...we spend a lot of time prancing about to her tracks

Sigh. Its not about "fixing" them leonie Its about helping them.

My son is great. He's wonderful. But he cant read or write very well - he is about 2/3 years behind his peers. He needs to be able to read to access the school curriculum and to prove his ability and to enable him to do some of the things he wants to in later life (atm its between a farmer, F1 driver or archeologist)

Is that really so hard for you to understand? I believe that what is causing his dyslexia symptoms is curable and I intend to try.

Your dc and mine are very different and their sn's are very different...so why would they need the same interventions/help?

Moosemamma, thank-you so much for your help, and the time you have spent researching stuff- lifted my spirits this morning esp. the bit about headmaster running in opposite direction, dread to think what conversations they have had about me in various staff rooms, even at county level. My oldest ds has CP and is 13- done the tribunal round twice and won, so get impression they won't mess with me now unless there are vast savings to be made, but you never know. He has a statement you are right. My other son I am talking about here is 10 and just got Ed. Psych. report end of last week. He is not on SEN register, although I need to enquire about whether he now qualifies to go on it. Sure I only got the Ed Psych. assessment because they thought BH not her again, and I told them I was going to get private assessment done, it they weren't going to do one. Was hoping would show nothing- as all sats levels are where they should be but had my suspicions as teachers not happy with output and I know he is not lazy/naughty. I do feel a bit glum that the report has thrown something up as he is an academic child and I suspect this is going to hold him back, but at least I know and we can help him, --not to mention the emotional drain of two kids to fight for.
Was relieved when ds1 left primary and didn't have to deal with the Senco anymore as came very close to putting in a formal complaint about her. Dread having to get re-involved with her. You never know though worth exploing if there are any BOGOF offers available for ED Psych. assessments as DS1 needs another one.
The links look great and will certainly try and get hold of the university lecturer/researcher, perhaps when I have had a more in-depth private Ed. Psych. assessment done.
Thanks for tips of how to discuss with him. Sounds like sound advice, was thinking along similar lines, so makes me feel more confident to go for it.
It may help his flagging self-esteem. Will print off info. for class-room and give to class teacher, who is lovely and I know won't take it the wrong way.
Thanks for all your help and lets hope everyone gets to a place of peace on this thread !!