Is this usual behaviour?

[elephantpoo]

Ok. I posted on here a little while back re. my DS (5 nearly 6) who I suspect has some traits that suggest ASD. I went to my GP to discuss this and basically got nowhere. GP put all my worries down to age / normal child behaviour (though admittedly I didn't voice all of my concerns......my mind went blank) You lovely people here gave me some great advice and support and I felt all fired up to fight DS's corner.
However, I am now doubting myself, and don't feel strong enough to fight at the moment.
I look at DS and see a lovely boy who appears to fit in, and then I wonder if it is me-do I need the parenting intervention they're suggesting?
Then he has a bad day and it's so obvious there's something else going on.
This morning, for eg.
I normally shower once we've all had breakfast, and before I do this I need to find something to occupy DS, or he'll just roll about on the floor outside the bathroom cuddling his bear. Sometimes he will think of something to do, but very rarely. This morning I was putting the breakfast things away and asked what he would like to do while I was upstairs. I knew the minute I'd asked that it was the wrong day to ask this question. He asked (in a very confrontational way) "what CAN I do?" I suggested lots of things all of which got an angry "no". He got more and more angry, trying to get me to say more ideas. It took me about 5 minutes of this to realise there was something in particular he wanted to do that I hadn't thought of / suggested yet. This is a process we go through ALOT. He won't say it.
In the end he started saying things like "I know I can't go on it" or "I know you'll say no, but that's all I really want to do". I tried encouraging him to just ask, and then he'd know. And I might even say "yes". But no, we had to see it through until the bitter end. After a further 5 minutes, and him finally hinting towards what he wanted I twigged that he wanted to go on his DS. I told him that all he had to do was say "can I go on my DS" and I would probably say yes. Then he had to go through the whispering-under-his-breath phase, and because I didn't answer (because I didn't hear him) he shouted "I knew I couldn't go on it". I encouraged him to talk a little louder. So he did the replacing-each-syllable-with-rah-and-saying-it-very-loudly phase. When I then asked him to just say it in his normal voice, so i could understand his words he did the saying-it-in-mubbling-way-that-I-couln't-hear phase, and then finally asked properly. I said he could, to which I got a sarcastic "thank you" shouted at me. As if he was saying 'finally-you made that a lot harder than it should've been".
We have this over food, drinks, where we're going for the day, what he wants to do. It's like he's out for an argument. And it feels like he gets angry because I should know the answers without him having to ask.
Maybe this is normal............anybody??

Crikey! Sorry it was so long. Thank you if you made it through to the end :)

If he has poor Theory of Mind, then he probably does think you know what he wants without him asking.

My Dd3 does this kind of thing sometimes, she is 9 and has a dx of ASD. If she asks something and I don't hear her and I say what did you want she will either shout it or mutter or say It doesn't matter in a really loud voice. TBH I just walk away when she is like this because as you say it is like she is looking for an argument.

I don't know if this is related to her ASD or if she is just being stroppy but as far as I know it is not totally "normal" behaviour, what ever that is.

Sounds like dd1 who is 9 and has HFA. She assumes I know what he wants, assumes my answers. We get lots of yelling too.
Suggest you write a diary for few weeks, then go back to GP with difficulties highlighted an list of concerns. Cry and stamp feet if you need too.

My two with ASD still have times where they are convinced that I can read their minds. I have a 5yr-old with no ASD who automatically tells me exactly what she wants usually very loudly.

Would it help to make small cards with a picture of the usual chosen activities on them, and then just ask/tell your ds to give you the card of whatever it is he wants to do?

My son thinks I can read his mind too .... he talks to me about characters and sequences in DS/Wii/PC games that he knows I haven't played and expects me to know what he is talking about. He also thinks I know where he is when we are out of the house !

At a parent training event I went to they were talking about an experiment they did with an ASD child and his mum. They sent the mum out of the room and showed the child a Pringles tube and asked him what was in it, he said "Pringles" they showed him that there was actually shells inside it. When they said they were letting mum come back in the room, they asked the child what his mum would think was in the tube and he said "shells" ... interesting I thought as my sone does this !?!?!?!

This is a Theory of Mind test lisani,

It can be an indicator of ASD if your child does not understand this.

I wouldn't dream of saying that your Ds has ASD, I am a mum not a proff. But if I were you I would keep a diary of all his unusual issues/behaviours and how you dealt with them and go back to Your GP armed with this and demand a referral to a developmental paediatrician.

Good luck

Personally, from what you've written, it doesn't scream ASD to me. What are the other traits you think that he has?

I know lots of NT children who would react similarly in the same situation. The fact that you say he appears to be fitting would be a huge comfort. Does his teacher agree that he fits in fine?

Hi. Thanks for the replies.
Ineedalife - it's almost like he just wants an argument, but there's also the bit where he makes me feel stupid for not knowing all along.

Ineedalife and lisad123 - I have started a diary as of today (and noted a few memorable events that have happened in the past few weeks)
detoxneedednow - I have copied and pasted below part of a letter I plan to take to the GP as and when I go back. I wrote this letter because last time I just blurted out a load of rubbish and cried a lot.

DS has had "unusual" aspects to his personality since the age of about 3. In the last 6 - 12 months (?coinciding with school entry) he seems to have gotten worse.
At the moment he's making family life very difficult when he "relaxes" at home. He seems to be "coping" at school and then letting his frustrations out at home, presumably where he feels safe to do so.

He has "habits" that seem to get worse when he's excited / tired - doing a weird thing with his eyes / head tilting, shoulder shrugging, and a hissing sound that ends in "t" sound. He also repeats things you say / things he hears under his breath

He is very strong willed and narrow minded-once he's got an idea in his head he won't be easily persuaded to do anything else (shouts so he can't hear you / puts his hand over your mouth / blocks his ears).........and when things don't work out the way he wants he gets very angry (he's really hurt his Dad before in a "tantrum")

His general behaviour can be seen as defiant / naughty and he seems to want to create arguments. A phrase I would use to to describe his behaviour sometimes is "cutting off his nose to spite his face".
His "catchphrases" are - "I'm confused" and "I don't know what you mean" when we try and explain ideas / jokes / bits of conversation to him. He chants these phrases again and again getting angrier and angrier.

When we sit together in the evening for our meal he constantly interrupts / talks over others. He does this when any of us are having a conversation and he wants to talk, even when it's with a non-family member.

At school he has one good friend ? however this friendship sometimes appears to be a negative one. They seem to have no boundaries with each other. Also, whatever his friend says is gospel and he does whatever his friend tells him. We have had other children over to try and widen his friendship group, but when the other child doesn't play the way he likes it ends in angry arguments.

Just recently he's started lying. A lot.
He's never had a very good sleep pattern. He can go for weeks sleeping ok, then start waking 3/4 times in the night / extremely early
He never sits still - fidgets a lot. At meal times his bottom is barely on the chair. He goes from kneeling to sitting to standing.
He's quite a fussy eater and seems very sensitive to smell.
I'm not really sure what "the problem" is. It's more of an overall effect of lots of little things.

My DS does similar elephant. He has some traits but I don't think anyone outside of the family sees them and (other than his dyslexic + fine motor problems) he is brilliant at school, with absolutely no behaviour issues at school. At home he can be a pickle and unreasonable, and has sensory issues. BUT I leaving my ASD worries at the door for the moment.....

By the way, my DS is also very very fidgety at the table at tea time. It was him falling of his chair a lot that provoked our trip to the GPs to ask for a dyspraxia assessment. Interestingly, we are doing Vision Therapy with him and part of this is retained reflex therapy. Previously he would jump a mile if you touched his lower back, but now (I believe due to the therapy) you can stroke his back with no reaction. Apparently children who have the spinal galant reflex retained (like DS) are fidgety becuase of the sensory stimulation from chair backs and trouser belts.

Thanks for that mrsbaffled. I feel the same about my DS. I notice his traits, as does DH and our parents, but beyond that people don't see it. The GP also has a son in DS's class.....and (suprise, suprise) after my visit DS was invited over to play. The playdate went well and we invited their DS to play. It started well but ended very badly, with DS screaming at their DS to go away and that he didn't like him anyway.........because he lost at a board game

At the moment I am thinking I am going to push aside my ASD concerns and seek some help for his head / eye tick.......it's quite disturbing.

Somebody here advised re. Tinsley House. I am going to pick a few bits from THE book and see if I can help DS that way.

Did the GP not say anything about the tic?? My other son gets tics, but they pass within a few weeks, and then he gets a new one!

GP said to go back with lots of video of his tic. I have some, but DS is on to me and recording it is becoming more difficult