DD hitting other children at school, not sure what else I can do?

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DD is five with SLI/ learning difficulties-more affected by all things related to language and it severely affects her understanding. She struggles to the extent it is very hard to understand the bits she does say too.

Anyway she's been hitting the younger children. She is in mainstream in a busy foundation unit. She mainly plays with the younger ones so I thought it was the best bet. School has been supportive and she gets one to one but not yet full time-that is being asked for int he next review.

Anyway when she does it they are giving her time out but her TA said today it doesnt seem to work. I wonder if she even understands it tbh. I give her time out at home and she always seems happy enough to sit there, releived even some times which is fine-its time out after all so its good it calms her down. bUT i AM NOT SURE WHAT TO SAY TO SCHOOL NEXT, THEY ARE TELLING ME WHEN SHE DOES it (oops sorry for caps) and what they did, and I have then been talking to dd at home about it, asking why etc and she just blanks me or talks about unrelated stuff. I don't know if she's avoiding the subject or just doesn't get it. What else can I do?

Maybe time out isn't going to work? She must be frustrated/stressed at school to be doing it? Have asked the EP to come in soon to observe her so hoping she has more advice for school but its stressing me out, I don't want her labelled as naughty.

Sorry I don't seem to be able to do a thread without waffling on! Any advice appreciated about what helps with children with SLI/learning difficulties in mainstream school and whether we need to rethink strategies?

I have no advice but wanted to send you a hug anyway.

I never believe time out works and it's not something I or school use.

Maybe they should show her the teacher is sad and show her the child she hit as sad and show her the child doesn't want to play with her anymore.

A visual social story?

Also give her some other way yo express her anger/frustation?

It this age I think it still has to be about school intervening before she hits.

Thanks indigobell, feeling a bit low about it esp after the news that her speech therapy trained TA is leaving so every time anthing hapens I panic about mainstream not being right, they don't understand her etc etc!

Yes I totally agree about them spotting the signs n dintervening before it occurs. It also will eb brought up as more evidence that thye need more one to one time on her statement . I asked did they know for sure sh means to and they said they'd observed her and it seemed to be unprovoked. But I think she has so much going on there is bound to be more to it-she must be feeling frustrated no one gets what she is saying and life is so confusing to her. Not making excuses for her but I worry she doesnt even understand what she is doing, or she is upset soemone has said something mean or something!

Soical story a very good idea have not tried those yet but will ask the TA about it and loom into it at home.

They are starting a communication book for her so maybe that could help her explain herself or be used to explain the fact she's made someone sad-good ideas thank you.

Unless the school can be sure that your DD is being malicious, then they should be taking the view that her behaviour is an attempt at communication. It's their job to work out what she is communicating!

Is the behaviour mirrored at home?

I would imagine that it is completely ineffective to talk about it at home because she won't associate what you are talking about with her behaviour at another time and at another place. Those things are quite abstract and require quite a sophisticated grasp of language and time/place to assimilate.

It might be useful to have a home/school book. Ask school to do an 'ABC' Chart:

A -Antecedant - What led up to the incident, what was she doing/what was said/what was not done/said?
B- Behaviour - What did she do exactly? ie. not just 'dd hit a child', but 'dd hit a child on the head twice then walked away.' or 'dd pinched a child then grabbed the spade he was holding'.
C - Consequence - What was the response of a) the child, b) the staff c) your DD? What was her mood like afterwards, how did she respond to their intervention etc.

Over time you might find that their is a patter that emerges. Perhaps she is feeling threatened. Maybe she copes well 1-1 with a child, but can't cope with being in groups bigger than 3. Or even that she can't cope with being crowded - for example if she always hits when she is playing with a small area that has to be shared. Even if it is a case of struggling with waiting in turn for something.

There will be a trigger, somewhere. It's very unlikely to just be a random act of aggresion. The key is to find out what it is, and find a coping mechanism that will allow your DD to communicate more effectively.

DD1's school use social stories. DD1 had one for home called 'Gentle hands'. It had lots of pictures of DD1 using her hands in constructive ways - cutting paper, cleaning a table, playing with shaving foam, helping a child up who had fallen, using cutlery at the table.

The story basically said:

DD1 is doing x
DD1 is using her hands to do y
Look, DD1 is helping Ezmerelda up, DD1 is kind.
DD1 must remember to have gentle hands. We don't hurt people with our hands because it makes them sad. Gentle hands make us happy.

Thanks Lougle. Yes I agree about the trigger. I suspect that DD feels overwhelmed when there is too much going on, noise etc but I could be wrong so I would definately like them to find out more about what happens before hand.

She does lash out with me at home, often if I misunderstand her or if she is feeling ignored because I am doing something else.

Also she has for a while pushed over younger children or hit them when playing with them, seemingly randomly but interestingly she never pushes anyone her own size! Its a shame because she is unusually big for her age so can do more damage but in her head is no older than them emotionally.

Recently she seems unable to cope with children coming to play and hurts them and cries immediately after. This had seemed to improve though.

Take your point re talking about it at home after the event. Just feel that the school are telling me for a reason so feel I should do something iyswim but have written in the home link book(got one its invaluable esp as my parents often collect when I'm working)that I am not sure what else to do-what I mean is I don't know what they are expecting of me, maybe they are just telling me because it is good practise to?

How much supervision does she have in the playground?

Doing a chart seems very good, the only problem is that by the time you have got enough evidence together to see a pattern, some other child may have become so intimidated that they are refusing to come to school altogether (happened to my ds in his first year and took a long time to rebuild his confidence).

I think out of consideration for the other children, you need to work on a prevention/active supervision programme straightaway, preferably combined with social stories.

Something non-punitive because your dd probably doesn't understand, but something that makes the other children feel safe and helps them to know what they should do if there is a problem.

(I don't think ds' attacker understood either and I certainly never blamed the parents: I just saw ds' need for something to happen immediately so he could feel safe to go back to school.)

You may be able to use the other parents as a lever for getting more 1-1. It sounds like she needs it, at least for the time being.

I think you can ask for her review to be brought forward if you want, too. It might be very useful for her to have a ft 1-1 who can really work with her consistently, if that's likely to happen after her next AR.

DS went through a phase of hitting and it definately seemed to coincide with a sudden interest in wanting to play with others but not having the language or knowledge of how to start and maintain social interactions.

because of his language delay time outs didn't work as he never made the link between that and the hitting.

Generally speaking we just used to say very firmly "No hitting" and then in a softer voice would say "gentle touch's" whilst gently stroking him and then holding his hand and moving it in a gentle stroke across my arm.

Hi

This sounds EXACTLY like my DD who is 5 and in Primary 1. We have already had to move her from one school to anoher as her behaviour was so bad and she was hitting the children and even the teachers. The previous school were using Time out and this just made the situation Much much worse. DD has ADHD so making her sit in time out segregated from the class was like a red rag to a bull it also lets the other children know that she is "naughty". The new school are great. They are working very much with teaching DD about consequences so for eg. If she shouts or screams she is given a warning and if she doesn't stop she has her outdoor play priviledge taken from her. We then set up a smiley face chart at home and if she is good at school she gets the smiley face and a treat and then if we have 5 smileys by Friday she will get to go to cinema or zoo as a special treat.
This has been working brilliantly and we have had no incidents for the last 2 weeks it is amazing!!!! I have to say though I believe the main difference in her behaviour is down to the supplements and vitaminse have been giving her she has calmed down so so much and is not as hyper and her communication skills are 100% better.

I really had given up all hope and was at the end of my tether even considering a special school for DD but things have change dramatically over the last month so don't give up.

Thanks for the replies. I spoke to the teacher today and I am not sure how on the same wavelength we are-more that I worry we are having crossed wires rather than differences of approach iyswim.

She feels DD does it when it is chaotic and she feels overwhelmed which is pretty much what I thought. But I said about having said to dd about being kind etc no hitting nd the teacher said it needs to be treated seriously. I said I agree but not by me before she's even done anything! It needs to be dealt with there. Think she agreed-the first time I talked to this teacher I got really panicky and upset about dd starting school so I think she is always slightly worried about it happening again!

DD is apparently doing most hitting whilst unsupervised and particularly at lunch time in the que. I pointed out that in our first ever meeting with the psychologist present she had said DD would struggle to cope in situations like a que as she is not ready yet for that. So I really feel she should have support at lunch times but I know that this is very hard to get.

Ps its good to know that there is hope and others have sorted this- she really hurt a little boy yesterday and he had a mark on his head because her medic alret band caught him. I really don't want other children disliking her and we've already had a situation where a parent approached my mum, upset that dd had hurt her dd. This mum recently invited dd to her dd's party (there are sixty in the unit so I am sure she wasnt just inviting everyone iyswim)so I am hopeful she has forgiven but it would be awful to have her seen as naughty and obviously not nice for the other children involved esp as they are all younger than her.

This is crazy. If she can't wait in queue - why doesn't she get to go to the front of the queue and have her lunch first!

That doesn't require anything that costs money.

I know! We've had a similar thing with her queing to leave at home time and thats been sorted by her going first!

got ed psych coming in soon so am hoping to talk with her although she's coming on a day i work i might ring her-the old one was great about phone calls but not done it before with this one will try it i think.