Is this a breakthrough? "Daddy, what's in your imagination?"

[oodlesofdoodles]

Said by 5yo ds this morning. That's theory of mind isn't it? Or am I getting over excited?

Psst, Imogen, have a look at the Sally and Anne test for theory of mind (ToM). DC with ASD are supposed to find it very difficult to recognise that other people have their own separate thoughts and don't 'know' what you are thinking. They don't have ToM.

Oodles, it's certainly encouraging.

Thanks for the link Ellenjane I'll read it later.

Not sure I subscribe to ToM theory. I reckon its more about sensory over/under load and verbal fluency. Still it made me very happy.

Just been reading "Send in the Idiots" which was recommended to me here yesterday and the author suggests that it is not entirely absent, just delayed, in the same way that speech can be. Very interesting. He calls it, "Mind Blindness"

I suppose it's similar to toddlers thinking that if they cover their eyes they can't be seen because they can't see you. In autistic children it develops later, or not at all without specialist input.

Either way, oodles, that is brilliant! That he has a concept of imagination let alone someone else's

Not trying to be all negative, but do you think he was repeating it from somewhere or do you get the feeling he knows what he means? I think the TV programme Little Charley Bear has the line 'what's in your imagination?' (or something like that).

Hopefully he is switching on and developing the ability to be aware other people have minds too. I hope my DS1 does that - sometimes think he has some awareness and I do try to show him that just because he likes things, it doesn't mean everyone else does. Think he sort-of gets it...

LOL mouth - yes we do get a lot of regurgitated stuff but this was original. We have been talking about imagination a lot though, eg "you're not a shark, you're pretending to be a shark. Ds say 'im pretending to be a shark' " etc

Yes I'm trying to get my DS1 into the idea of 'pretending' too - and I think he's starting to get it, though it doesn't come naturally. He's four and a bit.

Sometimes he'll come out with something that I think is original and then it occurs to me later that it's from this book, or this programme, or whatever - so I guess I'm just being Mrs Cautious...

He's a bit of a borderline/possible AS case, we think. How about your DS - does he have any 'condition' or suspected condition?

Glad you like the Idiots book Fun. It was recommended to me on here too.

Well a neuro dx-ed him but I don't agree. Imo he's too borderline to warrant it. Ds finds it hard to distinguish between fact and fantasy. What's the difference between topsy and Tim or the gruffalo or Jurassic park (he's only seen a bit) and David attenborough?

oh, just did the sally and anne test with my son 4.4years, he didn't get it :( we dont have a dx but possible asd.

The Sally and Anne test isn't failsafe, by any means. I just meant it's an example of how ToM is supposed to work. Some 20% of NT children may fail it but only 20% of those with ASD pass it. The age of the children in the original test was about 5yo for the NT children, a wider range age range of those with ASD.

thanks ellen :)

Just looked at the test Ellenjane. Pretty sure ds would fail that.....