echolalia? or something else?

[Jerbil]

yes, me again with yet more questions. sorry but it's a crucial time as we go for a 2nd opinion at CAMHS next week.

DS1 has been doing this for more than a year now. If I say something like "that's a nice blue balloon" he will say quietly under his breath "blue balloon, blue balloon".

No, I've noticed him doing it to himself. That is if he was to say "that's a nice blue balloon" he might also then repeat under his breath "blue balloon, blue balloon".

Thing is he doesn't do it consistently. chances are when we're with CAMHS next week he won't do it. I've noticed it more when we've been alone, he's even been copying the TV.

I wonder from anyone's experience is this echolalia or is this just an information processing thing going on?

On top of this he is finding it hilarious to copy what I am saying at the moment and did it to the doctors receptionist last week, but will he do it to the CP - probably not!

Jerbil, it sounds like echolalia to me. You can get different types, can't remember tha proper names, but that sort of instant repetition is one sort. You can also get delayed echolalia, when they repeat stuff from a programme or film. I'd mention it on your list of concerns, as Sod's law dictates that he won't perform for the assessment!

I am going to add this to my "list".This is what my DS does. I talked to GP about my concerns re. DS and poss. ASD, but got nowhere. The more "symptoms" I can identify and give a name to the better
Didn't realise it had a name.....we refer to it as funny whispering

Hi Jerbil

What age is your DS. My DD did this a lot and we were told that it was echolalia by the Speech therapist. However it turned out that it was just DD practising and learning how to speak. She had delayed speech due to significant glue ear which went undiagnosed until she got vents put in when she was 3. This meant she had a lot of catching up to do and was only just learning and hearing words for the first time when she was 3. Most kids will do this naturally when they start talking not when they are 3.

DD is now 5 she doesn't do it anymore her speech has caught up now but we still struggle with her social skills with her peers.

Good luck with your appointment next week.

Hi Thanks for the luck - I'll be needing it.

DS1 is 6 now. He didn't have delayed speech, did have some pronunciation issues. Had speech therapy mainly for letter k which he pronounced as a t but a 10 week session with a lot of work at home sorted it out. he has some literal interpretation and he gets mixed up with words, e.g. propeller = repeller, and windowsill = windowstill. SALt reckons he has very few issues now so much so that she's closed the case on him at school, but having said that I'm not sure I told her about the repeating thing.

He comes across as quite social in familiar settings with particular individuals, but then we can leave the classroom, be walking out of school and some child from his class will say hello and he completely blanks them.

Depends how old your DS is. Echolalia is also a phase of typical speech development. All children go through it and it becomes a problem is a child stay too long in the phase and doesn't grow out. Similarly can be a processing issue, he needs to repeat what is being said, process it and then derives an answer.

DS who is 5.7 when anxious especially will repeat the questions to himself then answe, even the simple ones like what's your name....but he did go through echolalia until he was 4 maybe a bit older.

I suggest you build up slowly on what he says, so blue ballon is great, how about adding I see blue ballon which DS processed better rather than that's a nice blue balloon. I kept my speech very simple and slowly added complexity to it as I saw he was ready.

Holy is right, echolalia is a normal developmental stage for NT children when they are learning to speak. It's not so normal in a 6yo, but is a flag for ASD. My DS (DX with ASD) was very echolalic as a 6 yo, mainly delayed echolalia. It's much less noticeable now he's 12. Do you ever watch 'The Middle?' The youngest child in that has immediate echolalia and is supposed to have Aspergers. If your DS had no delayed speech he could have AS, (rather than high functioning ASD,) but it's obviously only one flag. Definitely worth having on your list.

Crossed with blueShark.

Hi all thanks for this. Not seen the Middle, I'll search it out now though. This one might only be one flag, but it's one of many . CP already said strong ASD developmental history but during ADOS was too socially able. He can be in situations where it's just an adult he's having fun with. That was her point really, that if it was true ASD he wouldn't be able to do it anytime.
We chose to go for a second opinion after the CP suggested it. Said there's something but she didn't know what it's called. CP said there's no box to put him into but that's not to say there isn't something.

Yes, but with HF ASD/AS, some DC can interact well with adults IME. Adults are more predictable, more generous with helping with social cues, etc. The DC I support with ASD gets on really well with all the adults in school, but really struggles with peer interactions. It makes you wonder how well trained these professionals are with ASD sometimes. That seems a ridiculous comment. DC with ASD can act quite differently in different situations, it's those with ADHD that tend to struggle similarly in all situations. Is your community paed a developmental specialist or a general paed? Grr! (Not trying to DX by internet, BTW. )

Thanks. Didn't want to say it myself but yes totally agree. CP I thought Child Psyhcologist not Community Paed - sorry! and amazingly the Psychologist I'm talking about deals with hardly anything but ASD and learning difficulties. IMO they were looking for classic autism, and more severe, and cos he doesn't fit he didn't get the dx. Our 2nd opinion appt. is with someone who's been recommended as having dx'd someone similar to DS1. Just hoping this one takes the case on. It makes me cry when I see him struggle so much and yet they fall for his coping strategies.

Sorry for the abbreviation mix up. Still, sounds like you are getting to see someone a bit more appropriate. My DS was DX by a developmental paed who specialises in comminucation and interaction and was bloody marvellous! The DX pathway does seem to vary so much in different areas. Sounds like he's pretty HF. Does make it trickier to DX, though. Have some of his coping strategies on your written list as well.

Yes, I will thanks. Yes, he is very HF. some days I even think what am I on about, within a few hours that thought's usually gone!

my ds does this, he is 3, if he doesnt understand what i've said he repeats it back to me in almost like a questioning tone if that makes sense, he repeats from the tv but usually hours later, days later, weeks later, quotes from cars film are favourites.

also not sure if this is echolalia(sp?) but when he's playing with his cars hes started driving them around but talking in jumbled speech that makes no sense, in the middle of that will come out with quotes.

DD2 (has Asperger's) does the repeating under her breath thing; it's a kind of echolalia known as 'palilia' apparently.
She went through a phase of doing it loads when she was 4/5. Nearly 7 now and she does it very rarely. It started when she started school, I was never sure if it was a stress-related stim or just a way of getting her thoughts in order/confirming stuff.

Sorry, just to clarify, what DD2 does is repeat after herself, eg "Are we going to the shops?", then whispers "going to the shops" immediately after.

My son aged 5 with classic Autism likes to repeat too!

I will say 'please go and find shoes and put them on' he will repeat that word for word in a bit of a daze, and then need to be reminded that it was an instruction for him, lol
He repeats most things.
The paediatric consultant describes this as him having a high level of echolalia in her report, despite not knowing what some sentences mean and him not being able to speak interactiveky about the sentence, he will just repeat things perfectly.

All children go through a phase of echoalia when they're learning to talk. A child with delayed language development will repeat more and for longer.

Echoalia is a good sign in a way, the child is getting to grips with language.

I found it Very Irritating when ds's echoalia was at its height.

DS1 did not have any significant delay of speech (now 6Yrs). was speaking from the baby stage, so the repeating surprises me now reading all the above. He does repeat after himself as Alfalfa Mum describes, but also does it for things others say. I cannot imagine him not doing this behaviour at school but I bet any money it goes unnoticed (like everything else).

Ds2 (3yo), has extremely good speech, and I've noticed him doing it once or twice over the past few months, whereas Ds1 does it quite a lot.

DD2 never had speech delay either, she was speaking very fluently by the time she started doing this. It really seems more of a tic than anything else.
Sorry, I misspelt it up there , that should have read palilalia.
There's a page on wiki : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palilalia

Thanks for that. We went to DS1s 1st 2nd opinion appointment with Psychiatrist. I mentioned this in my notes which she has kept much to my horror as they were very rough notes. She briefly read them and has mentioned she will talk to SALT and may get him to see a different one.
Unbelievably, they've arranged his ADOS for today. so many appts this week cannot keep up!