My sons flapping is getting worse-reposted

[propercheesed]

Hello everyone(bare with me still learning).

My 6 yr old son has flapped from a very early age usually when excited but over the past 12 months I have noticed that it is becoming more often and now he jumps at the same time, rolls his shoulders when he is speaking and leans forward with his arms stiff and repeatedly clenches his fists. During a meeting with his teacher(oct 2011) I mentioned about his flapping and was told it was barely noticable at the beginning of the school year but it was becoming more noticable when he was listening to a story and it got to an exciting part.

He went to stay at his nan and grandads the other weekend and when we went to collect him he was doing his usual flapping and she took me in the kitchen and told me she hadn't seen him do it at all during his stay?????....is it me?? am I causing him to do it?????

He has been referred to CAMHS possible ASD, and EP is due to visit the school after SEND services highlighted SLCN and ASD

Please can someone tell me if they have had similar experiences.

proper my ds tends towards verbal stims. However two books I've read recemtly and found very useful are 1. Send in the idiots by an asc man who talks about why he stims and how he now does it subtly.

Also the out of sync child by Carol stock kranowitz, about spd. It's really a must read.

YOu could try keeping a log.

What happens just before he does it. What he does, and where, and for how long. What happens to make him stop (i.e. do you intervene? Does he stop of his own accord? What does he play with/go to next?)

That way you might find triggers for it.

It could be at his Nan's she spoilt him (in the nice way) and kept him distracted and occupied with attention, wheras you have to leave him to it sometimes. Plus if he has a need to do it, and at an age where he understands that some people find it odd, he might only feel safe to fulfil his need with you iyswim.

I doubt very much that you are causing it.

And FWIW, my 5yr old ds flaps.

DS skips, rolls eyes, jumps in a circle on the spot or hangs upside down on the settee or verbal little shriek (kills the ears). Ironicly over xmas everything stopped apart from xmas day there was the jumping when opening his presents. He was even playing with us with other things.

School....been back 3 days and its all off again. Imaginary plays back and so the playing with different things has gone again unless initiated constantly but he drifts off, and having convos on a broken phone with his so called mates :(

I put it do anxiety levels at the time and his sensory problems are sky high due to school.

I also doubt it is you x

I doubt its you too FWIW proper, Dd3 stims we have humming, singing and throat clearing. The throat clearing has been around a while at the moment, it is usually stress related.

She used to run around in circles when she was younger but that has stopped now. She jumps and hand flaps when she is excited or angry. She doesn't often do any of these outside our house.

Take care and be kind to yourself.

Thanks for the replies so far.

I will hunt for copies of the books you mentioned oodles and a log is a good idea starlight I have been keeping a diary but it has been more towards his other behaviours(inc bad dreams,coming out with spontanious answers to questions that weren't asked in the first place) never thought to put details about his flapping.

He is doing it now as I type he is watching a programme about spanish cones?? he stops when he is ready he always does.

The headmaster mentioned Aspergers and someone else mentioned High functioning autism quite sure I read these where very similar...I have never seen or heard so many abbreviations in my life! I know I have the internet but to be truthfull I haven't a clue where to start.

He is doing it again, he has put a glove on the top of a crane arm on his truck...stopped seconds after starting.

Think I may need a larger diary :) best go we have plans to build a robot tonight :/

If you (or school) think he may have Aspergers (or high functioning autism - you're right they're pretty much the same thing) - you should go to your GP and ask for a referral to a child development paedetrician so that he can be assessed for it......

My DS used to do it a lot. If it is any consolation, I think it was at its peak between about 6 and 9 and he is getting much calmer now he is 11. He still does it but mainly at home and it seems to be just banging his wrists together and a bit of flapping when he is over excited which is annoying but so much better than he used to be when he used to bounce and flap all over the place. He used to skip everywhere for a while too but thankfully now he is at secondary school that has mostly stopped. I did have to tell him that he would probably be picked on if he skipped around school so I probably scared him. On the other hand it is a good thing that he is able to contain himself.

I don't think it is you at all propercheesed other than the fact your DS was clearly pleased to see you and so was probably more excited/over stimulated than he had been for the rest of the weekend. I don't know how severe your DS's condition is but I used to be able to tell DS to calm down and he was able to contain himself a bit but he had a safety valve because we also used to say it was OK to go and bounce in the hall which gave him time out to calm down a bit with no stimulation if he found it a bit much to be in the same room with the rest of the family.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that some children do grow out of it a bit or they are able to direct their stimming to less noticable behaviours. They do learn coping strategies although it can take a while. Hopefully it won't always be this bad for you.

I should say my DS has mild AS and dyspraxia/DCD just to put it in context.

DS 4 with ASD & LD flaps a lot!!! He does it when he is happy / excited. He also jumps at the same time (sort of bounces) if he is really excited. It doesn't really bother me at the moment........our paed said it is something that may or may not decrease as he gets older.
I saw a t shirt on a website the other day with the slogan " I get flappy when I'm happy" - just about sums up my DS!!!

As for flapping when he saw you at Nans I would assume it was because he was so pleased and excited to see you!!!

hello everyone.

I have been keeping a diary of my sons flapping, he tends to do it

a)when explaining something to someone

b)when someone is explaining something to him

c)when he is multi-tasking while watching tv then moving back to something he is making infront of him

d)when he is excited

e)when he is doing/watching something of interest..and again tells whoever about it(yet if he is watching something he has seen before he sits v still just plays with his toes)

would it be possible that he is a tactile learner?(yes I am still surfing for answers :) ) he will not read or write in school but does at home with some encouragement, I have also noticed during his homework he will occassionaly stand and flap then sit down and continue carnt really see this being allowed in school.

sorry also forgot to mention he HAS to have something in his pocket but his teacher makes him empty his pockets every morning, had a meeting with the school and pointed this out(thought it may be because he was concertrating on not flapping) they said it would be ok for him to have blue tack or string in his pocket...was called in several days later because his teacher didn't think he needed anything in his pocket and if he does everyone else will want to do the same, I have since watched him sneek a car in his other pocket(on the playground checking to see his teacher isn't there) he also took a rubber(instead of blu tack) because he calls himself 'mistake boy' he is the only person in class who gets things wrong and has to fight for the CENTRAL RUBBER on his table.

Everyone else will want to do the same? That's really not your DS's problem! I'm sure having a fiddle toy would be classed as a (very) reasonable adjustment. Is he getting any support at school, propercheesed?

My DS is 12 and has ASD and flaps for England when he is excited. Fair to say he'll never be fat as it's great exercise, if a little embarrassing.

propercheesed I can't believe they won't let him have soemthing in his pockets! Sheesh! My class last year were positively encouraged to have fiddle toys (I had a big basket of tangles etc for them to choose from) as it stopped the Alpha Males from concentrating on kicking each other when they thought I wasn't looking!

My DS is never still if he is telling any one anything. He bounces from foot to foot or fiddles with his trousers or pulls his T shirt about. He did used to fiddle with his penis through his trousers so we had to stop that one! I must admit that his constant moving does drive me bananas but if you stop him he can't then concentrate on what he is saying.......
Doesn't take after me at all -I don't need to click my pen or roll my board marker around in my hands to stay focused, not me, no-
I think that very often our children hold things together out in public once they realise how judged they are but then feel confident and accepted at home and so can let go. I tutor a child with a finger flapping stim. He does it while thinking. It doesn't bother me as he needs to do it to stay calm and focused.

Strike out fail!

I don't need to click my pen or roll my board marker around in my hands to stay focused, not me, no

He sounds very sweet! Fwiw the man who wrote the idiots book mentioned above basically keeps something in his pocket to stim with subtly.
The best antidotes I have found for my ds's very annoying verbal stims are 1, calm down myself 2, give him plenty of fresh air and exercise.

Thanks for the replies so far.

EllenJane- we always say DS gets a good cardiovascular work out :0 he is currently in the process of 12 wks of SULP(SA+) and as mentioned the EP will be visiting on 29th of this month she will want to know his history. The staff themselves were still going from the first IEP(SA) which just basically states he has to complete school work to a standard expected in a time limit given and this was to be dealt with by 'staff in class' this was only updated in the beginning of Jan this year.

neverputasock-I included the thing in pocket on his updated IEP but his teacher is a complete idiot(as I found out during the call back) he doesn't believe that DS is as bad as the other 28 children in class therefore he refuses to treat him any different! I was given an option a) remove the thing in pocket from IEP or b)remove him from his class . He pointed out several times that he had told another teacher he will happily take 3 of her pupils in exchange for DS(demonstrated using his fingers just incase I didn't understand!!!) . He also gave me a wad of DS work(incomplete) with notes on to say it took all morning and half of the afternoon to do(date,title,4 lines of work) in a group of 6 WITH support! and they wonder why he is working below the curriculum levels. Apparently he gives DS a choice of working through break to complete and he chooses break but DS has told me since he has to stay in to do his work if he gets it wrong :(.

As awful as it sounds I didn't want to move him until the EP had assessed because whatever is triggering his behavour is within the setting he is now in. So I refused to budge with the IEP and made it perfectly clear that I will be documenting everything my son tells me and low and behold DS hasn't had a bad dream since that day!

oodles-he is the most loving little boy I just want to help him but its that not knowing how to help makes me feel so sad :(

Oh and now the school have decided there is something there but they don't know what...when I think I am getting my head around one thing it just keeps changing.

propercheesed there are times when I could quite cheerfully gather up a selection of my fellow teachers and have them all shot!

For what it is worth, and I know some of the SN board will disagree, there are some teachers out there that do want to do the best for their pupils. Sadly perceptions are coloured by the idiots. You seem to have been saddled with an idiot and I am sorry for that!

I carry a selection of tangles in my handbag, I have a highly tactile and heavy pen that I use and I am the queen of 'fiddling'! Why is it not OK for your DS to help himself by fiddling? I believe that 'fiddling' helps some children to concentrate but I do know others disagree. Kids at our school have lumps of blue tack, soft dice etc.

It all makes me really cross.

Working through the break will not help his concentration.

ds 7 used to flap a lot when excited, he has had various other stims or tics I can't tell the difference tbh. He tends to flick his fingers and toes when talking about his obsession (Zelda).

He bounces a lot, others have been playing with his hair (looks like laurel & Hardy), eye rolling, nose scrunching and grimacing.....currently he puts his chin down to his chest.

I would agree with examples you have given.

a)when explaining something to someone

b)when someone is explaining something to him

c)when he is multi-tasking while watching tv then moving back to something he is making infront of him

d)when he is excited

e)when he is doing/watching something of interest..and again tells whoever about it(yet if he is watching something he has seen before he sits v still just plays with his toes

Proper
You've described my two boys!
They have Fragile X syndrome (which is the most common cause of autism, 6% of those with autism have FX too, and many children with FX have autism type behaviours too)

Eldest tends to be loose with his movements, jumps, flaps and whoops. Youngest tends to go rigid and growls.
Eldest constantly bites his 1st fingers and youngest the back of his hand (both have callouses and hard skin)

Tends to be due to over stimulation, they can't zone out information. Excitement, anxiety, changes to routine, too much noise, colour, people...

Try to keep a peaceful and calm environment where possible. Not always do-able I know. Give him plenty of notice on changes. Use PECs to show him what is happening over his whole day (not just what's next) and get a calendar! (there is one called 'Home Planner" by
organised-mum.co.uk/my/hp
This one is brill as it gives plenty of room to put stickers of events or Pecs to show when and what is happening.

My DS goes stiff,clenches his fists and growls when he gets frustrated with something, unfortunatly he has caught his younger cousins off guard a few times and they have retaliated because they thought he was going to hit them.

Just before the end of last year he got to the point that when he walked through the door from school if his sister went to even whisper his name he just exploded screaming that I shut her up clutching at his head(red in the face, shaking)....he had mentioned a few times that his head felt funny(other times his head hurt but not the same as when it felt funny?) so when I finally managed to calm him and also my very sneeped 2 year old :( I asked if if it hurt or felt funny and he just said no then went into the living room, took his socks and shoes off, then sat stroking the cat for the next half hour.

He might not like your daughter getting 'in his face' Proper...I mean it might feel like that to him, not wanting the attention (her saying his name) on him.
Sitting stroking the cat is very good self therapy...he's very clever to do that.
There's nowt like stroking a cat to relief tension! Even I find that calming.

Mine are older now and tend to go off to their bedrooms as soon as they get in from school. It used to worry me but now i realise its just their way of calming down from a busy day in school.

5 rubbers conferscated so far because he took them out of his pocket........think i'd better start bulk buying!