I'm with the wrong man, but I can't leave.

[detoxneedednow]

Hi everyone

I could have posted this is the relationship topic, but I wanted to post it here as i've got a 5 year old dd who possibly has mild asd/aspergers and thought mums on here might understand more, where i'm coming from.

Ok so I met dp 8 1/2 years ago and we got engaged very quickly, too quickly, about 2 months after meeting. At the time I thought I knew him, but looking back I don't think I really did. I'd just come out of a rather dark place and my confidence was starting to blossom when I met dp, nevertheless though, I still thought deep down if i'm being honest, that I couldn't do any better. I loved him very quickly, but I have to be honest I don't think I was ever in love with him. I hear of couples falling out of love all the time, but I feel so sad to think that at 27 i've never been in love.

I'll tell you a bit about of him. He's very hard working...............actually, I was going to list you all the positives about him first, but I am genuinely struggling. I'll start with the negatives. He can be incredibly inconsiderate, thoughtless, sometimes a little false, aggressive, rude, we have very different sense of humours, which is a big thing for me as when i'm around people who are more like me I get sad because I know it's not going to last. When I laugh, it's like a form of therapy and it reminds me of the person I am and want to be...................then I have to go back to reality and be grateful if me and dp actually have a laugh together. Academically, he struggles and I always help him with spelling and grammer etc, but the older I get, the less attractive I find this. It didn't use to bother me, as I liked the idea of helping him.

He can be a great daddy, i'm emphasising daddy because he enjoys the daddy stuff like playing with dd and rolling around on the floor. Going for walks just the two of them. He's not a great dad though. I have to remind him the simplist of things regarding dd. Even silly things like making her breakfast. He shouts at her a lot for silly things. He sometimes will say sorry and i've even seen him cry once when he shouted at her and saw that she was frightened. I know deep down that he's a good person and I know that he loves us more than anything in the world. He would work himself into the ground so we could have a nice life and is completely mortified recently as his business has completely dried up and we're having to borrow a lot of money.

The reason I don't feel I can leave is because I genuinely do love him, but more importantly I don't feel I can trust him to look after dd on his own for significant periods of time, such as for the weekend. He would make my life hell if we broke up and I don't think he'd keep things friendly even for the sake of dd. He can be ridiculously immature at times.

I'll stop now as I can see I could go on and on and on.

Please, some advice more than needed. I can't tell anyone in my life all of this. I've told best friends little bits now and then, but overall, this is a first.

Thanks for reading.

I was in your situation a couple of years ago OP, with a DS age 4 with ASD and a very unhappy relationship. I felt SHIT at having to move DS and make this huge change to his life, but the bad relationship was affecting him as well as me (as I'm sure it is your DD if he is shouting in her face). I left and have never regretted my decision. I can understand your worries regarding contact without you there, this is something to take proper advice on.

You say he is a good man but a good man wouldn't: (these are all from your op)

• make my life hell if we broke up
• be ridiculously immature
• be incredibly inconsiderate, thoughtless, sometimes a little false, aggressive, rude
• shouts at DD a lot for silly things
• don't think he'd keep things friendly even for the sake of dd
• He's not a great dad, I have to remind him the simplist of things regarding dd. - - Even silly things like making her breakfast. (My ex used to do this, he would make our evening meal, or a drink for us, but not for our DS!)

Then there is the basic fact that you feel you are not compatible. It sounds like you have very different sense of humour (I'm curious what he finds funny that you don't and vice versa, I'm guessing his 'humour' is not that humorous at all). That you feel like the real you when you have been in other people's company and have been able to laugh and relax.

You say the relationship began and became intense VERY quickly and that you were lacking in self confidence at the time, this is relevant too.

How would you feel about having some counselling on your own to think all this through?

Hi detox, sorry for your situation. If you have been together and dp loves both of you and you love him would it be possible to go for councelling together so that you can work things out. Have you told dp how you feel, does he know how you feel? Think you need help to get back to what attracted you to him in the first place. As we get into a relationship, and its in the honeymoon period it's always great, but in reality i think as we move on, get to know one another we can all get complacent and take one another for granted. Your dp is maybe rude, aggressive etc due to business not being good and having to borrow money, which will be leading to stress. If i were you i would tell him how i feel, decide what you both want ie to work things out/be together and both try harder to laugh, be happy and work things through or go to counselling. FWIW my dh can be a pain, he can shout lots, little patience etc think its a man thing lol. If you decide you dont want to work things out, maybe initially you could leave dd with her dad for couple hours at time and build it up from there. Other than that could she maybe see him with someone else present eg her gran (his mum). Hope you are able to decide what to do for your sake and dd, also to be happy again.

bored, I know what you're saying. When I read back what I wrote he's difficult to picture as anything other than, to be brutually honest and for want of a better word, a bit of a knob. The thing is, I know he's a good man, but he struggles with a lot of things that most people wouldn't, so mumslife, yes, I have thought about this and i've even mentioned it to dp and he's pretty much agreed with me.

bored, I am actually having CBT at the minute, but in a weird sort of a way i'm scared that it actually will do it's job and make me more confident and then i'll question our relationship even more, i'll leave and then i'll regret it. I can't emphasise enough just how much I don't feel comfortable leaving dd with dp without my help. What the hell do I do? This really is a nightmare. I know my parents even thought they know all this about him, but maybe not to the same degree, would still tell me to stay for the sake of dd and her safety. In a weird sort of way, i'm more like a babysitter for both of them. I completely understand that yes, he could be doing damage to dd when he shouts at her etc, but it does get better and I know he knows it's wrong and he's ashamed(mostly). Please don't think that this is a woman under the thumb speaking and that i'm making excuses for him. I just wanted to paint the whole picture for everyone reading this, so that you can try to understand just how impossible it feels for me to leave.

shazian, I know that his snappy and aggressive character does get much worse when he's stressed and the way things are at the minute that would explain why. However, he's always hot headed, as am I sometimes so we completely clash. I have told him how I feel, to the point of being quite brutal actually and he always says he'll do as much as he can to calm down and he does for a while. I sometimes feel like I could fall in love with him and I have days when I genuinely do like him, but it's rare. If we did broke up and dp had dd, I know he wouldn't let me call any of the shots. If I said ok i'll pick her up in a few hours at blah blah, he would just bark at me that she was his dd too and he'll bring her back when he likes.

Regarding your comment about him not being a good dad because he cannot remember things like giving her breakfast: I can see that you don't rate his competence very much in anything and it is therefore possible that inadvertently you have not given him the chance to "learn" about how to be a proper dad and look after DD on his own. Would you consider letting him get on with it for one weekend so that he can learn?

Many people have shouted at their children, goodness, there are countless threads on mums net about mothers saying they feel awful because they lost it and then 100 answers saying not the worry, bla bla bla. I am not condoning it, and it needs to stop, but you also need to think about what might be stressing your DP and help him.

I get the feeling that if he bettered himself, you would be more inclined to continue in the relationship? If his business is not doing well, would he consider training?

timeto, he retrained for his current job, for several years on and off actually so it would be a HUGE blow as you can imagine. I know he feels pathetic and I know that he isn't. I have tried to help him and I have been sympathetic to the current issues, which are obviously affecting all of us, not just him. Nevertheless though, I understand his male pride has taken a huge knock. You're completely right about most parents shout at there children from time to time and i'm actually one of them who posted a thread, but dp doesn't realise how intimidating he is to dd. I'm very stubborn, so I never admit that he intimidates me, but he has. I know he would never physically hurt me, but he doesn't know his own strength sometimes. Thank you for your idea of suggesting he do it all one weekend. I can't believe I never thought of it before. Don't get me wrong, he's had her for a whole day lots of times, but i'm always on the phone checking that he's given her her lunch or inhaler for example. He usually hasn't and I mean 9 times out of 10 tbh. I suppose your suggestion can do no harm.

I feel really guilty talking about all this actually. Although i've spoken to him before about all this, i've never admitted not being in love with him.

boredandrestless has come up with some interesting ideas and I also think counselling (but NOT joint counselling) would help you clarify your thoughts further. BACP are good and do not charge the earth.

I think you came out of one very poor/abusive relationship and ended up in yet another; unfortunately you never gave yourself enough time to find out what it was that you wanted from life nor gave yourself a chance to be not in any relationship. Time on your own would have been a good thing, your radar for twatspotting was well off and likely still is:(.

I would start loving your own self for a change.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. You say you love him but you mention a lack of trust with regards to him being able to look after your DD for the weekend. No trust = no relationship.

What is there to love about this individual exactly?. He is not a good man nor a good daddy (women in such relationships often write that sort of comment because they themselves can write NOTHING at all positive about their man)if he treats you like this. A lack of money or stress is no excuse for his behaviour towards you.

Please talk to Womens Aid; they can and will help you here.

If it was not for your DD would you now be together at all?. I think not. She should not be the glue that binds this together. Are you afraid of leaving im primarily because he could well make your life extremely uncomfortable post split?. You are both imparting your DD damaging lessons as to how relationships should be conducted.

He's making your life pretty much miserable now; you really do not want to spend the next year, 3-5 years like this because he will emotionally destroy you in that time and take your DD down with him (he;s already shouting at her for lots of silly things; children pick up on all that and unspoken tensions within your home).

You can leave; you are stopping you from leaving him (probably out of misguided loyalty towards a bloke who does not deserve any such consideration from you). By choosing to remain within this as well, you are also preventing yourself from ultimately meeting someone truly decent and kind.

"I'm very stubborn, so I never admit that he intimidates me, but he has. I know he would never physically hurt me, but he doesn't know his own strength sometimes"

What do you mean exactly by that last part of this sentence; has he puched walls or lashed out at other inanimate objects?. That is a red flag if he has done that.

What's he like when out and about; how does he treat other people (is he disrespectful or makes snide remarks)?. Is he an aggressive driver?. Again all these are red flags.

How can you purport to love someone who intimidates you?.

Please don't feel guilty talking about it, there really is nothing to be guilty about.

You say he struggles academically but he had to retrain for his current job (his business?) well that to me shows a huge amount of commitment and a will to improve himself. This is very commendable. Nevertheless, I think you don't feel he matches up to you, you don't really admire/respect him anymore.

Honestly speaking, I couldn't be with someone who I don't respect and admire, I think your standards have risen as you have matured, and as your confidence has improved.

Even if his behaviour improved (you say he is thoughtless,etc), do you think you would be happy with him long term?

You are still young. Please think about it carefully, but if there is no way to salvage the relationship, you have so much time ahead of you to rebuild your life. That aside: I still think he needs to learn how to be a Dad and what it takes regardless with what happens to your relationship.

Attila, I know what you're saying and I know why you're confused as to why i'm staying.

What I meant by the last part of that sentence was actually just silly things like when we used to (back in the day) have childish play fights. He'd pick me up for example and it would hurt. I know however, that this is completely unitentional. However, all the red flags you mentioned are things that he does. He often hits walls and is an aggressive/impatient driver. Disprespectful at times, definitely. I can't necessarily say why I love him so much, but I do. He has so much to give and doesn't act like i've mentioned does all the time, but sometimes I look at him and I just think what on earth am I doing with this man?!

Hi detox,

I wonder what you yourself learnt about relationships when growing up (of course you do not have to answer that but I am wondering whether you are just now replicating what you saw in your own childhood). That needs your consideration.

Your man is showing all the signs of being what is termed in relationship terms as "The Loser". I had a nasty feeling he hit walls and is an aggressive driver and this is precisely why I asked you about this.

You are still young and you only have one life; is this really the life you want for you and your DD?. You are truly selling yourself short if you choose to remain within such a relationship.

You say that at 27 you have never been in love so why do you purport to love someone like this man who really does not deserve the time of day, let alone you as his presumably still engaged partner. You allow yourself to be dragged down by him.

Abusers are not nasty all the time and there are good times; its just that when this is closely examined these are actually few and far between. Abusers too do nice and nasty very well but its a continuous cycle.

Do you also feel that you have over time modified your own behaviour to fit in more with him?.

What do you want to teach your DD about relationships?. If you stay with this man you will impart damaging lessons to her, no two ways about it.

Please think long and hard abvout your future (and that of DDs) with this bloke; I think you are only with him primarily out of habit, codependency and because it is "easier" :(.

timeto, I do actually admire him in certain ways. I admire he's ability to drag himself up when he's feeling low(most of the time) and I admire his work ethic. He never gives up. I don't really know if I respect him. I know he doesn't respect me. I don't really think he knows what respect is tbh. For example he doesn't understand that sometimes you don't just speak your mind. Sometimes, in fact all of the time, it has to be filtered first and then you speak, but dp doesn't seem to have that chip. Then he'll just say "hey, i'm just being honest!" He does want to improve himself and if you met his parents, his dad especially, you'd think he's bettered himself hugely! His dad is a sexist, racist, rude, immature, offensive man. As you can imagine, not my favourite person. I hate taking dd round to their's every other sat or sun. I can't wait til it's over. God that reminds me, we're going round this weekend...............great!!

Attila, again, I know what you're saying. It makes sense, but it's so complicated. Honestly, I know i've described him as the biggest tosser to have walked the planet, but he really does have a lot of good in him.

I'm putting my dd first. I have to wonder what is going to damage her more. If I stay, is she going to grow up thinking that this is how all men and all relationships are? If I go, will her physical SAFETY be put at risk? Will he watch her? Will he know what she needs when she needs it etc...................

zzzzz, we don't actually have a diagnosis, but that's another and very long story. We're definitely longing for carefree time, but there's no way we can get it. I'm not saying we don't go out together just as a couple, quite often actually, but the problems are always there when we get home. There's not really much I can do to support him being a good father. If I suggest anything to him or say he's doing something wrong, he'll just argue with me and then sulk or just walk out to who knows where and come back who knows when.

In real emergencies he's actually brilliant(usually) That's definitely one of his positives that I didn't mention. If i'm really low and I need a cuddle, he'll be there. If i was stranded somewhere, he'd be there, no matter where I was. Yes, I think a lot of his issues are down to sadness, which sometimes get confused with anger. He gets very frustrated with himself. I've suggested anger management to him and he sounds up for it, but then doesn't see it through.

I'd be reading everything I could about living successfully with a man with Asperger's Syndrome, myself.

Also, maybe some spiritual stuff - whatever floats your boat - learn to meditate, read some Eckhart Tolle, join a prayer group, go to synagogue - whatever it would be that gets you in practice of feeling love, that you can direct towards your Dh ("loving kindess meditation"?). "In love" is a snare and a delusion. It doesn't last (and I did the whole Thunderbolt City, Grand Passion, I Knew Within Moments thing) - it's a question of finding ways together of living cheerfully and supportively as a team. Keep an appreciation journal for a month? Every day, write down one thing you really appreciated that he did/said and one that your child did/said. Keep it present. Learn to appreciate those small things.

Whatever counselling you get, I would get it in an AS context, including him if possible. A "normal" therapist is likely to give him the Mumsnet treatment... (leave him leave him leave him leave him).

It's really really tough being an undiagnosed and in denial adult on the spectrum - if he is admitting that he may be on the spectrum, that's a really great start. "I'm just being honest" can be answered by "actually, an NT person would call this being needlessly cruel, just FYI."

Read Rudi Simone. I farking love that woman, both her Aspergirls book and the one about 22 things every woman must know blah blah. Bite sized, realistic, and finding ways of nurturing and finding the good in our family members rather than trying to make them more NT.

omm speaks great sense

Hi detox,

re your comment:-
"If I stay, is she going to grow up thinking that this is how all men and all relationships are?"

In a word, yes. What other answer is there to give?.

What do you want to teach her about relationships?.
What do you get out of this relationship now?
You have not answered either of those questions.

What did you yourself learn about relationships when you were growing up?
That needs some serious thought on your part.

Your man did not escape his parents poor influence unscathed. He learnt an awful lot from them, particularly his Dad whose influence seems paramount here.

Re your other comment:-
"If I go, will her physical SAFETY be put at risk? Will he watch her? Will he know what she needs when she needs it etc..................."

You and she remain together. He cannot deal with her now with much degree of responsibility and is still very reliant on you, phoning you often.

Your home too should be a sanctuary; its patently not. He I dare say acts very differently behind closed doors. Controlling men are often very angry men as well.

She is still entitled to a relationship with her Dad but would suggest that any future contact re her and he is legally binding, not informally made.

Thought too he would dismiss anger management and it is interesting that you brought that subject up. He is responsible for his own issues. You should not be expected to carry him.

Some people make far too many excuses for poor behaviour in men and "abusive" is a word that is certainly not liked and frowned upon.

You were engaged as well after only 2 months (why?), this is another red flag amonst many you yourself cite.

It is also not down to you as his partner to try and reeducate this man; his behaviour is his responsibility!.

He may well be abusive; you cannot and must not discount that distinct possibility here. You may also have to face the very real possibility here that he is acting like this too because he can. Stress, business and financial woes are no excuse; there are many stressed and financially worried people out there who do not choose (yes choose) to act like your partner does towards you and your DD. My guess too is that previously you've talked, he makes promises to change and then reverts back to type and does not act on anything you discussed.

You walked away from one poor relationship and unsurprisingly and all too soon ended up in another. You at that time were not in a good enough place yourself to embark on another relationship.

How can you stay with someone you do not love?. You also wrote he does not respect you so what does that tell you about his overall demeanour let alone your DD?.

Is this really the life you deserve for yourself and your child?. I personally do not think so.

I may well be coming across to some as too bloody harsh but your bloke actually sounds chilling (and not on the ASD spectrum either;e he seems all too fond of threatening your re the child and throwing his weight around with regards to her post any split). At the very least and I am being charitable he is not behaving appropriately in many situations.

If nothing else detox I hope I have made you think about things some more.

My ex has AS. That had nought to do with why we split, and it wasn't my choice.

Xmas with DS & ex was like an episode of BBT - not everyone can live like that 24/7.

He was fantastic last year when DS was in real trouble BUT if I see him this weekend I can't guarantee I won't do him an injury after his performance last weekend. Sad thing is he took several family members out for a meal, inc myself and DS. So you see he was TRYING to get it right. Every now and then he totally screws up due to the AS. You learn to deal, accept and gently correct when needed.

Most areas have "Dads" groups nowadays, often centred around children's centres to help improve fathers parenting skills in a supportive environment. Often these are based on a practical activity like cookery - would something like this be something your partner would be willing to do?

Otherwise - it's easier in some ways to parent an asd kid alone, you can be consistent about your approach. If he is AS too, but you ar sure is not the man for you, then it will eventually feel lke you have 2 sen kids not 1 and the resentment will build to crisis point on your part. That would be the worst case scenario for everyone concerned!

I agree with sep' councilling (his needs to have asd expertise!)You need to become expert at boundary setting so his behavior doesn't spill into emotional abuse whether or not you stay together.

I also wonder how isolated you've become socially. It's too easy to forget when caring alone for an sen child how many months it's been since we last met up with a friend for a girly coffee/gossip session. This may not apply to you, but if it does then you may feel better for having a non- child related social outlet of some sort.

Hi detox

Can you imagine yourself 10/20/30 years down the line living with this man and the regrets you are likely to have?

He is childish, no doubt about that. And clearly cannot take responsibility and you are allowing this childishness and irresponsibility to continue by mothering him to a degree.

I have recently ended my 18 year marriage after trying and trying for years to make it work; putting my own empty feelings aside for the sake of the family, and for him. I am so glad i finally stuck to my guns as now I am so much happier.
He is a good dad in his way but strangely (and the sad irony isn't lost on me) his relationship with our two SLD boys has improved enormously now he's living elsewhere!
Apparently all the guys he works with think he's a top bloke, and are at times trying to set him up with other females as they think it's such a waste he's alone, as he's so amazing; friendly, jokey, an all round genuinely nice bloke.
I say apparently cos when i lived with him i spent most of the time propping him up emotionally, financially and practically and he was the most miserable git most of the time, feeling that his life was so horrendous (when in reality he had it really easy cos he had me to do all the work!). Now he realises he says that he was a twat but it's too late for me.
My only regret is that i didn't do it years ago! I'm 47 now and don't envisage any sort of relationship of any substance for me at my age.
Don't do the same!

Hi

There is a good chance, based on DD's condition, that her father is ASD.

That could explain some of his behaviour.

It sounds to me that you've outgrown each other. That's one danger when you meet your partner when you're so young.

27 is too young to settle for a relationship that is not working.

I would give counselling a try.

But my ex-H was an Aspie and I really couldn't handle it.

Just read back my OP and I meant grammar NOT grammer. If you're going to spell a word wrong, that's not the best one

Anyway, back to the subject. I really appreciate all your responses. It's a bit of a mixed bag opinion wise, which probably a good thing.

unpa, as I mentioned before, yes I do think that dp is somewhere on the spectrum, as does he. I don't really know what that means though. I'm not sure if it would be worth while him being assessed at his age. Dp said to me the other day "you're my soulmate, but i'm not yours". Now, I don't believe in soulmates personally, but it really hurt. It's almost as though we both know that overall we're not right for each other, but equally can't bear the thought of being apart. That's why the whole situation is such a nightmare. To quote U2 "I can't live with or without you".

attila, actually I came from a background where my parents hardly ever argued and were very solid. They argue like there's no tomorrow now, so I think that they were just very good at keeping their differences away from us whilst we were young. I am really thankful for that. I don't think that my upbringing has anything to do with it personally, but I did have a rough time at secondary school when I got my first lot of depression, which gradually turned into social phobia. From the age of 12 I lost all confidence and I think that's probably why I accepted dp's issues, because I knew what it was like to have them. Not necessarily the same, but nevertheless I certainly had them.

unpa, going back to you, can I ask what was it specifically about you ex's aspergers that you couldn't cope with in the end?

Hi detox

((((((detox)))))))). You need one of those. This is all so very, very sad.

Re your comment:-
"Dp said to me the other day "you're my soulmate, but i'm not yours".

What an awful thing to say to you; did you challenge him further on this, what was your response?. I think it is also as you surmise in your following comments after that sentence you write. Someone though has to be the grown up in this relationship and I don't think it will be him though. You're both now dragging each other down and it is sad for your DD to be witnessing as well. This is no basis for a real life solid and healthy long term relationship is it?.

I think your parents basically covering up their arguments did you a lot of harm; you learnt a lot of damaging stuff relationship wise from them. They did you no favours really and that legacy has now spilled over into your adult life.

Whether he is on the spectrum or not, it is down to him to address his issues with the GP in the first instance; they are NOT yours to carry for him or be responsible for. FWIW I don't think he has any intention of doing anything as he gets what he wants from this relationship (i.e you being quiet and compliant doing everything in the home and with regards to your DD) and therefore there is no incentive for him to change. Also, what if it was determined he was not on the ASD spectrum at all, what then for you?. You're 27 (so far younger than me!). You really do not want to spend the next month let alone decade like this. Another year of this going around in circles will emotionally wear you down even more.

Counselling for you solely is certainly a good idea and as mentioned before BACP do not cost the earth.

Attila, I personally don't believe that my parents did me any harm regarding the way I view relationships. When I said they covered them up, I actually retract that and want to re phrase. My parents rarely argued when I was a child and I felt very safe and secure. Yes they argue more now, but I have no evidence actually to suggest that the reason they didn't argue in front of me was purely as a cover up for me. I just meant that i'm assuming because they're human they would have kept their disagreements for their own personal time, which I don't think anyone can say is a bad thing.

I know what you're saying when you say I shouldn't feel responsible for him, but i'm not sure I do. I do help him with certain things yes, but I don't necessarily think that that's a bad thing. He does have to put up with a lot from me too. I'm not just this perfect little house wife who does everything and then sorts out his problems too. He does help me with certain things too. I just wanted to make that point clear, although I can understand from my OP why you may have got the impression you have.

Saying all that though, I still don't know what I should do. It's never as simple as pack your bags and leave..........you can do better etc. I suppose I feel like there is no right answer.

Also, just to add, I'm not saying that I never heard my disagree atall. I'm saying it was fairly rare and never uncomfortable to see.