Over Anxious Parent?

[Davros]

OK, second go at posting this having done a bad job of it the first time and getting it pulled. Thanks to the couple of MNers who responded the first time, sorry about that!

I would appreciate the opinions and advice of you MN SNers about a friend. It is not technically special needs but this is where I am comfortable so hope that is OK.

My friend has two kids, aged 2 and 4. She has always been what I consider cautious, e.g. struggles to make decisions and likes to keep her options open, is a bit of a tight wad with money and now she constantly thinks her kids are unwell. I am very much at the other end of the spectrum when it comes to the kids being ill and work on the assumption that they are fine unless they show very clear signs of illness. I don't give them medication usually, they simply get better and it shows that you don't need meds for minor/low level illness most of the time. Because DS (16) has ASD, he has no "behaviour" to go with illness and so doesn't play a game of being unwell when he isn't. DD (8) is NT and does it a little but not much, e.g. "my tummy hurts" means I don't want to do X or Y usually. I know that many other parents think their kids are unwell more than I do or classify what I would consider nothing much as more serious. So what I'm trying to say is that I realise that maybe my view is a bit distorted and that I'm more "immune" to claims of illness or actual illness because of DS.

However, said friend seems to be way beyond what I would consider "normal" but different to me. We went to visit over Xmas and first she said the 4 year old had a cold because she had sneezed twice, then she took her out on an outing and totally forgot about the "cold". When we arrived at her house, the 4 year old was crying after a nap and she told us she was going to phone the doctor! The child was fine and not even remotely ill, yet an hour earlier she was going to phone a Doctor!!! I used to think it was a way of cancelling arrangements or trying to get others to cancel, because she didn't fancy doing X or Y, but now I think its different. She genuinely believes at the time that the kids are ill when there is nothing wrong with them. Of course, I thought afterwards that the 4 year old is too old for an afternoon nap but I haven't said anything.

So, is there cause for concern? What, if anything, should we do? I think its partly her personality and I'm not very tolerant as she has pissed me off in the past with not being able to stick to a plan, but I think this is extreme.

I sympathise. I am like you in that I rarely give medicines and as a result my 7 year old is hardly ever ill and I think its as a result of building up good immunity herself. They hardly ever go to the doctors only their paed appointments, and dd2 is the same.
I have a friend like yours who rings the doctor for everything and constantly takes her children aged 7 and 2 to a&e for the slightest temperature and cold. My dd had pneumonia once and I saw her up there with her boy running all over the place. She went 3 times in a week once.
It does concern me as she is a worrier and I do think she could easily tip over the edge with her unfounded concerns that her boys are always ill. But that's just my opinion. Hospitals and doctors must keep records of these visits

I am at the rather blase end of the spectrum as well. I wouldn't worry about the afternoon nap, when the 4 year old starts full time school, that will be knocked on the head anyway, so that wil resolve itself. As to the other issues - I would be concerned, not so much for the children, but for your friend's anxiety levels in general. I don't know if you are on terms (or would even want to! gently probe how she is feeling in general) I imagine it might help if she has some sort of sensible counterbalance - ideally in her social circle, but if there is an approachable HV/childminder etc that could help, or even a robust GP re:illness.

I agree about the afternoon nap. I realised after we'd left their house that the child is too old for an afternoon nap, even if she's tired, as we're being told that she has trouble sleeping at night now but, as you say, that will sort itself out.
We don't live particularly close so it isn't a case of being able to pop in and I would probably be the best counter balance she has in her life. I suppose I have a problem in that I'm rather intolerant of this sort of behaviour anyway, but I also have some deep negative feelings about her in particular. But I don't think I'm exaggerating, DH thought the same and we asked another mutual friend what she thought, we just described the behaviour without giving away our views, and she immediately said "its beyond normal".
I do think its at a level of maybe being part of some sort of depression so I feel, despite my feelings, that I should do something if possible.

Is there (or could there be) a reason why she is so overprotective? I know when my pfb was little, I came across as neurotic and overprotective and very much a helicopter parent, when what I was actually doing was compensating for the severe ASD element. And so I was calmly insistent on things like naps (and indeed, naps continued for longer than they should) because the routine was needed, iyswim?

the doctor thing is OTT though. I am another lax parent, and I cannot even remember the last time any of my children had Calpol or similar. "sore tummy" tends to mean trying to get out of PE or similar, and it only counts as illness if favoured activities cannot be entered into (eg no interest in riding bikes or going to the playground, or unable to eat crisps or cake!)

is she struggling to feel in control of being a parent? overwhelmed by the responsibility, and wants someone else to have the definitive say-so?

I have a friend who is like this. If her children are sick or even have a tummy ache she takes them to the gp, she gets an emergency appt for this too!
Her 8 yo daughter fell over going into school the other morning and cut her hand, she took her straight to her local surgery and got the nurse to clean and dress the cut. She was consequently 2 hrs late for work. I didn't know what to say when she was telling me the story
I have a friend who is a gp who says 70% of appts are unnecessary. Some people need to change their lifestyles (eg. patient: I have a bad cough, doc: do you smoke? Patient: yes, 20 a day, doc: maybe there is a link there?!) the rest of them are a complete waste of time as there is not much the doctor can (or should) do if a child has a completely run of the mill bug. But patients have complained that my gp friend has refused to prescribe for them. Some people seem desperate to have anti biotics even if they've got a virus! They are mad.

Well, she is certainly neurotic in my book but there is nothing afaik "wrong" with either of her kids. I suppose I am concerned:
a) for her, is she depressed or out of control in some way?
b) for the kids as it may become somewhat damaging to them. I don't want to over react and say she is damaging her kids but I don't believe it can do them any good in the long run
She is happily married to a kind and supportive man who sees her as the expert on the kids! He is helpful but does what he is told, he doesn't seem to question any of it.
She has insisted on coming to visit me in a couple of weeks time, which I think is just a way of getting out of the house (god, I'm horrid), so maybe I'll say something then? Should I say something and should I say it to her direct?

I don't think you are being horrid, I think you are recognising valid points of concern, and also that you know how it can be to be alone with young children, and desperate for help (NOT comparing your situation and hers, but agreeing that maybe she is insisting on visiting you because she needs to get out of the house)

I agree that her attitude will not be good for her children in the long run. And I say that as a stepmother to (now adult) children who reach for the paracetomol at every opportunity, because it has always been handed over as the easy option - seriously, my step daughter probably takes tablets for at least half the month for one (non)reason or another, and has not done a full weeks' work ever (was the same at school - there she wouldn't manage a fortnight without a day off for a 'temperature').

I don't know how you would go about raising it, though. Do you know her well enough to ask a generic "Is 'everything' ok?" and hope she opens up? or would you need to be more specific?

I do know her well enough and, as I already feel that I could live without her, I don't think I've got anything to lose. So I will think about it and try to train myself to be (and sound) as objective as possible.
Its interesting what you say about your step daughter as it isn't a good way to go about things as maybe it gives you the idea that work is optional if you think school is?

Does she actually take them/phone the GP or just say she's going to? Maybe once they go to school she may get things more in perspective?

I think she does take them to the GP quite often as she often mentions actual visits, but not as many as times she claims they are ill. See OP, she sometimes just forgets that she ever said it, although it had been super important not long before. She obviously thinks her behaviour is normal as there doesn't seem to be any covering up, quite the opposite.

Has something happened previously to either of the kids (as in illness etc) to make her over cautious? Is she lonely as in does she have a lot of friends, goes out a lot. What I am getting at is if she is outgoing then she will have a lot of convo to talk about and if not its limited to the kids?

Is she saying it for attention? or to draw attention to her kids?

Does she use the illness excuse for bad behaviour? As in if they are whinning then they must be sick or coming down with something is the excuse so she doesnt want it looking like she has the odd issue with her children and that they are either perfect or ill with no inbetween stuff.

The only reason my children go to the docs is if they have ear ache as both are suseptable to ear infections when they have colds but thats it. With DS he has such a high pain threshold the only way I know he is ill is when he says he wants nothing to eat as that is a serious sign to us as he eats non stop

I also use very little in the way of pain relief and if I do I wear it down so that I know if the pain has gone or not.

I probably wouldn't tackle it TBH. My husband's family are from the school of 'I've got a cold I need the Dr and antibiotics' and he can see how ridiculous they can be. I think it's maybe just your friend's personality.

I think the GP would drop some heavy hints if she's going all the time.

My Aunt is the same. I just accept that she lives on another planet and thank the Lord that she's never had anything real to worry about in her life.

I asked if we could stay with her once at 'fairly' short notice (It was Tuesday pm and we wanted to stay on Sat night). I didn't expect her to say yes as people can have plans for the weekend, but her reason for saying no was that she hadn't got a chicken big enough to feed us as well as her own and she always does the weekly shop on Tuesday morning, so it is done .

I offered to bring some food for all but realised it was pointless when she started banging on about what then what would happen to the uneaten chicken. She was so STRESSED on the phone and my attempts to make it possible/compromise was just met with more stress so I let it go and stayed with my other aunt nearby with unsureness about whether I was allowed to pop in for tea.

Why do you feel the need to do anything? Do you think her behaviour is genuinely harmful in some way, or a sign of such deep distress that she cannot live like that and must face up to it or irreperably harm her family? Are you planning on telling her you think she suffers from an anxiety disorder and would be happier if she sought help? That she is harming her children and making herself unhappy? That she is a nuisance to the medical profession and should be more considerate of the doctor's time? Asking her whether she suffered some trauma in her past that has made her particularly anxious about her children being ill?

I think you need to be more clear, and honest with yourself, exactly why you feel the need to raise this matter with her. It certainly isn't clear to me why you want to discuss it with her, except that you find her behaviour personally irritating and difficult to understand.

My mum used to be like this with me. It was part of a mental illness that she suffered from (don't know what.... we NEVER talk about it :S). I have been left with a deep rooted fear of doctors. I once saw my notes fom childhood and there were many many instances of when I was taken and the doctor did nothing, remarking on over-anxious parent. When I was a teen I was taken and my mum announced to the doctor that I was depressed and needed pills(!) Terrible! My mum was banished from the room and I got to express some of my despair over her behaviour!

I consequently struggle with over worrying when my LOs are ill, but I restrict my response to worry, and never actions (of taking them to the GP) unless I can justify it rationally and know there is nothing that I can do to help.

I'm with rabbitstew. I had a friend like this (moved away now) and even ifI had told her she was over protective she wouldn't have listened.
Maybe her own mother was like it with her.

i was once abit like your friend, ds it turned out had a low immune system so for me it was probably triggered by having a constantly poorly child and very little in the way of support... i was a first time mum so no idea when a rash is a little virus or something more sinister, when a temp would go on its own ect so i felt out of my depth on my own with ds, i still do at times.

the sneezing twice then ringing the drs about a cold is OTT though!! i'm far more laid back now, last time i took ds to the gps was november he had a perforated eardrum, urine infection and was really ill (felt terrible not ringing sooner!)

sounds to me though that your friend needs the reassurance from drs and they are her first call, it is not normal but i know when i was over anxious i needed the gps help and reassurance. i personally wouldnt say anything about the over cautious parenting

Thanks everyone for your views and experiences. It seems that this sort of behaviour is more common than I thought. Rabbitstew, that was the purpose of me posting here instead of steaming in, to work out if there is a problem, whether its mine or hers and if I should do anything. To be honest, I'm more than happy not to do anything as it makes my life easier but I don't believe in ignoring something because its awkward. So at this point, I'm rather thinking I won't say anything as it seems pointless. I will only say or do something if it is likely to do any good and I would only do it if I can be sure that I can do it kindly and not critically, and I'm not sure I can do that.
Coff33pot, I like your thinking. Very ABA to work out the function of the behaviour. I think it is your third point, she resorts to illness to explain other behaviour, e.g. crying, apparently not eating/sleeping properly. I think she does this as she worries about other people caring that her kids are crying or that they have or haven't eaten when it usually doesn't bother them. However, we noticed from day one with the first child that she couldn't bear her crying and would always be poking her, walking her, feeding her etc to try to stop her crying at all costs.
I'll see what happens when she comes round, if she doesn't cancel because one of them is ill!

Sorry but I'm with Rabbit here. Seems like you are making a big deal out of a difference on parenting? You are clear that you don't like her and from your posts I see no reason to be concerned for the children's welfare. Just cool off the friendship I reckon.

Tbh, from the way you describe it, your friend sounds like an indecisive, anxious type who expresses her thoughts out loud more often than she should. For example, her thinking just before Christmas with her 4-year old could have gone along these lines: "the last thing we need at Christmas is an ill child, so maybe I shouldn't do too many activities out in the cold and risk her getting ill, but then I wouldn't want to spoil her fun, but of course, it's harder to see a doctor over Christmas, so if she's showing any signs of getting ill, maybe I should call the doctor sooner rather than later... but if she's not actually ill then that would be a waste of time...maybe if I express my thoughts out loud, my friend's reaction will help me assess whether calling the doctor is being OTT, or sensible... it might be me overreacting again... but I wouldn't want my friend thinking I'm the sort of mother who doesn't care, so saying it out loud would also let her see that.... and anyway, I'm not very good at coping with illness... " Many people lead their lives like this. I'm sure they find the indecisiveness and anxiety personally annoying and it can become bad enough at times of extra stress for them to wish to seek help, but plenty of others muddle along through life like that, provided they have grounded, loving partners, family and friends providing them with some of the stability, certainty and security they need. I think ideally it would be someone closer to her than a friend who is already feeling judgmental and irritated who would raise the fact of her apparent tendency towards anxiety and whether or not she should seek any help (for the anxiety itself, rather than help alleviating the anxiety by seeking help for the latest triggers for the anxiety...).

I think you are right Rabbitstew about the saying things aloud and sharing her thought process. I should come clean I suppose, I am a relative so that is why I feel I should be more responsible but also find it hard to drop it if I'm just irritated.

I am of the belief that there is a reason for everything. Find out the reason and you are half way there to solving an issue.

I suppose its to do with having DS. example. He erupts at home or over hyper. Why? find out why and then when found remove it or just dont do something again. Usually that reduces the problem being repeated without having to emphasise about his behaviour and put him under more stress.

If you are a relative then that goes beyond being just a friend. You could pick an opportune moment the next time one of the kids grizzle or cry and she comes up with the "he/she is coming down with something" by just being you and testing the water.

Try going to the child and looking, feeling forhead etc and then just point blank say "nooooo he/she is just having a whinge arent you? and throw the child in the air or make it laugh etc and see what her reaction is to that.

If she says yes I think you are right and shrugs it off then you can poss work out from their that it was open advice she was requesting. If she doesnt and insists the child is ill then you know there is more too it iyswim.

You obviously want to help her and can see something is up somewhere. But I think if you want to persue it its going to be a lot of testing the water each time she visits you and having the patience to do it without coming out with you are being OTT lol.

Thanks coff33pot, that is very good advice. Before starting to think that there may be more to this, I had thought that I needed to let go my negative feelings and I was aware that I find that very hard. Being on SN, some of you will know what its like when a relative is very unsupportive and she has been extremely when it comes to DS (ASD). But she seems totally unaware of that and so I have festered. Actually, we did have a "drains up" at one point, at her insistence despite me saying that I thought it was a bad idea and I came out of it well imo!

Just off the cuff Davros but if she was/has been unsupportive when it comes to your DS (sighs as I have a few myself).................

Does she only behave around you like this?? or is she like it with the rest of the family too.

I was wondering maybe.........if you have tried to explain your DS issues and although unsupportive outwardly she has taken the info onboard and is panicking if her children so much as have a hic cup or cry or tantrum??? and so feels compelled to make up some sort of an excuse around you?

Probably totally off the plot but just wondering.....

I don't think its just around me but its worth thinking about. Maybe its more pronounced around me.