Aspergersy people, - AIBU on this thread?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a1374520-To-need-tips-for-dealing-with-a-DH-with-no-social-skills#29279442

No, Star. Some people have very strong opinions and find it hard to accept that theirs may not be the only correct one. which can be a bit of an AS trait for some.

I'm afraid I don't know much about adults with aspergers although I do know a few with aspergers. I tend to get on well with them usually because I find their bluntness (sorry for stereotyping) refreshing but the relationship is never 'deep' enough to get to really know them iyswim.

Hmm.Tough one Starlight. We do have to learn to conform to some of society's rules, but are we duty-bound to conform to all of them? I don't know. My Aspie DS usually finds out what social rules are by breaking them. If you can't see the point of a rule why would you want to learn it? So he can see why hitting is bad, but not why you should stay at the table and make polite conversation.
When someone doesn't "do" empathy how are they meant to understand the hurt their words can convey?
Still, it makes for an interesting thread.

But did he learn that hitting is bad from his own internal moral guide, or was it because as a child he received a much stronger reaction from adults when he hit than when he left the table?

i.e. was the no hitting 'taught' better or even 'learnt' better? And does he struggle with remembering the no hitting rule, or has it become fluid over time so that it IS natural?

And if it IS natural where it wasn't, is he a changed person not accepted?

I am curious.

A fair few parents hold of getting a dx for their child as they do not want a "label." However, at the same time, we all acknowledge that dx and support in adults is difficult to come by.

I'm not trying to induce guilt in anyone by asking this, but I'm genuinely curious. Do you worry that by not getting your DC "in the system" as dx'd and with support now that they are young, it may be more difficult for them to access dx and support when they are older? Obviously this is a glaring oversight for the medical world, that these conditions are dx'd at a younger age, but either overlooked, ignored, or poo-pooed once they are adults. It should be relatively straight forward regardless of age, but obviously it isn't.

It was definitely one of the motivating factors for us in getting DS2's dx.

He didn't learn it from his own internal moral guide. He had to learn it. But as I see it he has to learn rules for behaviour, they don't come naturally, so he is working twice as hard as NT people just to get by, which I think one of the people on the AIBU thread implied.
I can see what you mean about how the "no hitting" rule is likely to have been reinforced more strongly and therefore absorbed more quickly.

Yes I understand the harder work thing. DS is doing brilliantly. For a short time he could fool anyone he is NT. He manages nursery fairly even without support (doesn't learn anything mind, but can get through the day) but I'm told that Reception will exhaust him as he simply will not be able to hold it together for a full day without tiring and then getting things extremely wrong and then getting into trouble, even WITH support.

My DS is 17 now so he has come a long way, but still makes "jokes" which would be hurtful if you let them be, and talks about things inappropriately.
The thing is with a child you go over the same ground again and again before it sinks in, but you are in a position to do so as a parent. With a spouse it is very different surely.

I found Temple Grandin's take on this kind of thing interesting. She said a lot of ASD adults who were raised in the 50s fair better socially than people with more recent diagnoses, because manners, politeness and courtesy were very heavily drummed into children in a way they are not today. She learned certain courteous responses by rote so that she will always introduce herself and ask "how do you do?" when meeting someone new, etc. She has found this very helpful on giving her some traction, socially. It's something I bear in mind with my ASD son, although I won't prioritise it until he speaks more fluidly. I do always model courtesy, though.

I think the education system was less disabling for those on the HFA end. Structured, rote, no group discussions, repetition, clear rules, teachers were ALWAYS the authority rather than sometimes jokey and friendly and sometimes telling you off etc etc.

but yes, interesting point about the manners of the older generation.

Having said that, I have often wondered whether lack of manners of the younger generation means my ds will fair better.

I was queuing to get dd from nursery one morning and was in a chatty mood, so I looked around the other parents. Nearly all of them were plugged into some gadget or other, totally absorbed in an antisocial act despite being in a huge group of people with a common interest (parents of children the same age etc. that attend same nursery).

How necessary will it be to know the rules of a dinner party compared to the rules of talkboards etc.? And somehow, texting on your phone during a date/meal with colleagues/drink with mum etc. seems to be acceptable behaviour now.........

Looking at the ex and my own excursions outside the inner city with DS I'd agree. How the hell am I supposed to teach DS basic social courtesy whn every other word uttered by the the adults on the bus or at the corner shop is a swear word?

I've purposely cultvated a few "golden oldies" that we've met walking the dog to enalee DS to practise simple greetings like "How are you today", (no he doesn't get why he should respond "fine" yet but I live in hope lol!). Please and thank you is another basic, basic courtesy that he's deffo learnt from a good nursery/the old dears. He prefers it in places like Wales as he knows what's expected of him and people answer as he expects when he tries to be social(e.g good morning, instead of a grunt)

It's a key reason why I strongly feel relocating would be beneficial for him in the long run. He NEEDS good general role models, family and friends aren't enough if we are constantly contradicted by the ijeets on the the streets daily iykwim. (random person at bus stop, a TA that doesn't drop every H in sight aka Amy Childs etc).

I also feel very strongly that havng had pets from an early age (our dog isa total sweetie pie) has helped his empathy develop> His AS dad feels the same even if neither of us can put our fingers on exactly WHY in a scientific way. A dog is totally non-verbal yet they let you know how they are feeling, perhaps it's the very simple nature of the interaction that kick starts a brain synapse or two?

His Dad doesn't "get" a lot of "people stuff" - it has to be pointed out to him in words of one syallable but he understands violence is wrong. A zero tolerance approach was how he was taught from babyhood and I've done the same with my lad.

I'm sure you are right about the education system too. When I was at school teachers taught and children learnt. We sat in rows, didn't have discussions and really weren't asked our opinions about anything. Much easier and more predictable for people on the spectrum.

I interesting thread, thanks for flagging it up Starlight.
(I often think about aba-ing my dh)