We have always known there was something different about DD

[FriggFRIGGYPudding]

Shes 3 now and the 'differences' are becoming more apparent.
I guess I just need somewhere to write them all down,and to see if they sound like something,or nothing,to anyone else.

She gets very angry,or frustrated when something doesn't go EXACTLY as she planned it to,she also finds it impossible to accept she has limmitations,things she cannot yet manage.

She does not listen-in one ear,out the other.
ie she will hit her brother or pour a cup of water on the floor,get punished,feel sorry about it,apologies,and then just do it again!

She never finishes what she starts,she will have wandered off to do something else by the time youve sat down to help.

She never stops moving
She never stops talking
Even when she's asleep
She wakes up at 5am

She bites herself
Pitches herself
Screams at herself for not getting it 'right'

She doesn't like to make eye contact
She will not give hugs if asked,but is very loving ,sensitive and empathetic on HER TERMS.

She does not seem to understand that her actions have consequences
ie if she jumps on daddy,it will hurt him,if she pushes her brother,he will fall down and hurt himself and if she won't stop doing something she is asked to stop doing,she will be punished.

She finds it hard to understand 'turn taking' or waiting in a que(sp?)
She reacts very very badly to any criticism for example,if I ask her to calm down,she will scream at me " NO, YOU CALM DOWN!"
She is always the one causing trouble just by being loud and bolshy,she is bossy too,she doesn't mean to be, I'm sure of it,
at the end of the day she often asks if she is naughty "yes or no mummy?"

it breaks my heart.

Any advice would be appreciated,
I would obviously be over the moon if I'm told there is nothing wrong and she will grow out of it all,but I don't want to do nothing and let her suffer either,I really don't know what to do.neither of us can control her effectively anymore.

thankyou if you managed to read by humongous rambling post!

your post has made me cry it took me back my daughter who is now 14 was just like you are describing i use to ask her for a cuddle and never would unless it was on her terms. she would never do eye contact and even now she doesnt. i have been hit and kicked by her till it left bruises. She is just doing gcse module exam and she got her maths back last sept and got a b and she has just retaken it because it was not good enough. i am not saying it is but have you ever thought of aspergers that is what my daughter suffers from

Hi, your post made me emotional too. I was going to ask if you'd thought of asperger's also, my son is 5 and we're going through the diagnosis process with him and so far everyone profesional who has met him has suggested asperger's.

i wish i had seeked more help earlier on but everytime i mentioned my daughters behaviour i was told i needed to be more firm with her and that i was to wrapped up in her her paed at the time said that i needed something else to focus on i eventually got the diagnoses at 12 years of age so please for your daughters sake seek help. i wish i had not listened to them and i blamed myself for years and felt like a constant failure even thought she would be better of with someone else but i am so glad i didnt. make a list of things like eye contact and how she plays and how she interacts and take it to the doctors and ask for help. if i can help you in any way i will

Thankyou so much for reading and replying, it is lovely to hear your DD is doing so well worriedmummy
How are you finding the process gottalove?

funnily enough this post was sparked by another post,in a different section,a woman who couldn't cope with her newborn,she wouldn't sleep,was never still,it made me cry because I realised my daughter had been exactly the same,we have spent her whole life desperately hoping she would just calm down!

I am terrified that it is just 'her' or that we have been hopeless parents.

My parents,my mother in particular does not understand her at all,she thinks she is naughty,and that I'm letting her walk all over me,it's not true,we always follow through etc....it just doesn't buddy work!
They expect the worst from her,and that's what they get.

My PIL,fortunately,are so much more understanding,they love her to bits,and she blossoms when she is with them

For example she runs around touching everything,all the buddy time!
At my parents they shout at her,over rule me and tell her she mustn't,so she stops just touching,and starts pushing things over,until something breaks.

At PILs,they let her touch,till shes finished then she'll go do something else....

Sorry,more rambling!

I have also often felt she might be better of with someone else.thats so sad worried I'd put it down to my anxiety ishoos,but I wonder now how many mothers feel that way with high need DC...

Please bring her up as gently as you can.

I recently read Rudi Simone's Aspergirls. One of the things that really struck me was how damaging a really disciplinarian upbringing can be to a child who is really self-critical before anyone else starts on her.

God. Are there any words apart from "really" in the English language?

ommm I had to go back through my post and delete a load of 'really's before I hit post!

We are trying,but,I fear,failing at that.

I have run out of ideas.

I think you should ask your GP for a referral to a child development paedetrician.

It could be aspergers or it could be ADHD (they're frequently co-morbid)

It's highly unlikely to be you, or to be 'bad parenting'

Get onto it now. Normally takes at least a year to get a diagnosis.

Good luck.

my parents also dont understand and kept saying all i wanted was a label for my daughter which is not true i wanted her to have the help she so needed. They now do not talk to me and the only person who understood was my gran (apart from my husb) but unfortuantely she died in feb and my daughter took it badly. now look who is rambling
the process is they will have various assesments from speech to educational pyschologists and they observe the child talk to you and talk to the child. if i can help in any way i will

Thankyou all for your help.
She has also started grinding her teeth a lot ( when she's awake)

I'm so worried for her starting school,she adores pre school,but 'big' school will be so much larger,and she will be one of the littlest,she starts in sept!

I will make an appointment for her next week.

Is there anything I should ask for specifically or bring with me to help?
Should I take her with me?

take a list of her traits, (eg eye contact, frustration, contact, interaction skills etc) it might be worth you arranging a few pre school visits to the big school before sept and before induction day so she is aware and you are not springing it on her and talk about how the big school day will go ie reg class work playtime class work lunch time etc.. and i would discuss with doctor before taking her so she does not feel like she is being talked about because it can upset them also write down a couple of days diary eg what she is doing what she got upset over how she reacted when eye contact occured what she has done to her brother etc so the doc can have a clearer understanding ask to be refrerred to someone ie CAHMS or CASBAT or a paed depending on your area and say you would like something done sooner rather than later

I didn't take my DS to the initial appt with the GP.

He was in the waiting room, but the GP didn't even ask to see him.

Take a list of all her traits you can think of. And also be clear that you want her to be assessed for Aspergers.

Please don't worry about school. It's almost a year away! There's no point in borrowing trouble. I mean, if you can get help in place for her so she copes well with school, then that's splendid, but there's no point investing emotional energy in worrying about it, yk?

Finding gentle ways of looking after a sensitive child is all about what suits you and the child - there are hundreds of people selling books with slightly different flavours (Alfie Kohn, Jan Hunt, Jan Fortune-Wood, Debra whatever her name is who wrote Three in a Bed but I don't mean that one, I mean the one about "Letting go as children grow", the how to talk so kids will listen book, Mindful PArenting (although I wanted to kill Jon I-meditate-for-14-hours-a-day-and-I'm-a-perfect-parent KAbatt Zin by the time I was one chapter in)... blah blah. Lots of websites to look at - Sandra Dodd's unschooling website; the Joyfully ReJoycing website, the Natural Child project, Taking Children Seriously, Alfie Kohn's website - I mean, really, there are so many people trying to communicate ways of bringing children up gently, and one or other of them will resonate with you.

If you have any spare money, it might be a really good time to spend some of it on a little bit of family therapy kind of stuff? At our lowest points, I've used a Greenspan Floortime therapist who was just WONDERFUL at telling me what I was doing well, and how to shift other things around. It was a lot of money for a session, but I could live off what I'd learned from it for months after. Lots of people here swear by ABA therapy, so maybe one of those can give you advice in that direction.

Hi Figgy, Sounds like my DD she has just turned 5 and has ADHD. She absolutely never ever stops talking she used to hit and bite herself and lash out at us all the time this has thankfully stopped in the last 6 months she finally realised that it was more beneficial being nicer to us than being horrible and making us sad. She is still having massive problems in school though she gets so frustrated by having to sit still and concentrate and shouts and hits out. She also used to shout and scream at us all the time but again she seems to have outgrown this we started to think she might have ODD.
We did get her privately diagnosed and the consultant has given us medication but we are trying the healthy eating, vitamin supplement route before we go there.
Also make a note of all that triggers your DD's outbursts and see if you can change those situations for eg our DD used to refuse to go to school in the morning as she was watching tv so simply we stopped putting tv on in the morning. I know that sounds really simplistic but when you actually realise there are triggers for everything you can start to change the behaviour.

Do ask for a ref to the Child Developement Team.
I work for my local CDT.

If your little girl appeared on our caseload I do not think it would be an innapropriate referall. I wouldnt automatically think she had a dx of aspergers or asd or anything else though.

It does sound like you could do with some proper support and your DD a proper assesment.

In our area you DD would probably be invited to attend our Social and Communication Clinic as part of a 6 week assesment. She would be observed in a group situation performing play based tasks. A report would be written and used as part of the dx process including several professionals.

She is at the age that we see the majority of our children.

Please try not to be so worried and DONT blame yourself. Get the ball rolling for an assesment in the New Year.

Take her with you but dont expect too much from the GP. They are not in the position to dx your DD and will have to refer them on. You may have to be insistant. Can you do a bit of research to find out what your Local Authority offers in the way of ASD pathways etc? Your GP may not know so it would be helpful if you go armed with the information.
It is often CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health services) but you maybe lucky and have dedicated services to younger children with difficulties.

My DD also has dyspraxia and crunches her teeth all the time during the day and hugs really tightly (the teeth grinding can be a sensory seeking thing)

MrsdeVere,we are in north hants,test valley council...I will ask my GP,at my surgery they are mostly crap,but there is one absolute star of a doctor,I will insist on seeing her ASAP.

Thankyou all again,you are all so kind.I'm overwhelmed by your messages.

Am marking my place, off to bed [party pooper]. Will pop back tomorrow

Gosh, I think I am going to be the odd one out, but your DD sounds just like my DS at that age, but in our case he has changed massively. My DS has v mild CP, but his empathy has grown enormously just in the last few months. Now he's nearly 5.

DS also ground his teeth a lot whilst awake> Visiting a cranial osteopath always stopped it.

So much of this has rung true from when my DS was this age, he has ASD.

Mine grinds his teeth too, along with almost everything else on your list.
Her asking if she is naughty, I'd stop using the word, and when you do describe negative behaviour describe the behaviour not her. So hitting is not kind, pouring a cup of water on the floor is messy and dangerous, etc. It likely won't stop her doing it or get her to comprehend it any better but the slight change in language will be less of a dent to her self esteem.

I'd be limiting contact with the GPs that don't get her and shout - you don't need all hat negativity, its not good for you and it's not good for her.

(I read that post of the mum with the baby too and was transported back in time, but felt all I could add the thread for her would be future worry and didn't think she needed more stress!)

Do go to the helpful GP and ask to be referred - a list of traits and concerning behaviours is a great help as your mind will go blank when you get in there!

Nursery - how is their reputation for SEN provision? You will need a supportive, can-do place how support parents in getting statements and work proactively. My son found nursery very very hard but it settling more now he is in the school with a routined day.

I think you have got some excellent advice here- esp from MrsDeVere.
If your GP is sympathetic do go and speak to them; bring a written list of all your concerns- things like sleep/wake patterns, when did she toilet train, sensory seeking behaviours, tantrums (when, where, what circumstances). Try to recall when she achieved her motor milestones e.g. sitting up, standing, walking, up/down stairs.
Some less aware GP's may try to lob it back to you as being a parenting issue but I feel you have described enough concerns that your DD should be assessed by a multi-disciplinary team.
Having a 'label' -while its not what any of us want for our children, is actually liberating as it can help you to understand how the world is for her. And will enable you to learn the many, many strategies and treatments that are available.
Best wishes.

Thankyou all so much.it is so reassuring to know that there are things I can do for her,things that sound simple but mean so much.

She is lovely today,she is playing digging in the mud in the garden,she won't put a coat on but she ever seems to feel the cold!

WRT her milestones,she hit them very quickly,she walked at 8.5 months,spoke fairly early,climbed very early( before she could walk)
But she has never quite figured out puzzles,she still finds even very simple ones difficult and frustrating.
She toilet trained at 3.3 months,but when she got it,she got IYKWIM

She wakes at 5am,goes to bed at 6pm now as we realised it didn't matter when she went to bed,she woke at 5 am anyway!

I will try to make a list this week of when and where the tantrums occur and The sensory seeking stuff,it's all become so normal now,I don't even 'see' them half the time.

Although a big trigger is asking for snacks...ALL the time,and not eating meals,I really don't know what to do about it either,me and DP are undecided on whether to let her snack,or to enforce meal times?!

(she's just come in from the garden,and casulaly remarks there's blood on her hand,she cut herself,and didn't bother telling us....now we have to have the Battle Of The Cut Cleaning )

Thankyou all again,your advice is absolutely priceless.