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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Original poster

SEN COP only applies to dyslexia and learning difficulties

44 replies

coff33pot · 12/12/2011 14:58

?? Got call from senior manager. Battled out the contents on the statement for one more go. Tried to make me see that they couldnt quantify all the provison till all reports were in and as we are missing SALT they cant do anything about specifying and quantifying that.

Angry told them that is not what I am on about and that I will spell it out one more time (getting very hard to be nice on phone now)

I want to see "DS is is to receive 25hours 1 to 1 support by an experienced TA solely for him"(or words to that effect)

Answer I got was "ohhhhh" well I would have to consult with someone else and look at the COP. Told them I attached section that applied with my first email (I think it was 8. something) I got told yes you did but that applies to dyslexia and learning difficulties???

Any comments?

OP posts:
Original poster
coff33pot · 12/12/2011 14:58

Apart from the fact that they are thick as two short planks as I have been repeating this since day one Angry

OP posts:
moondog · 12/12/2011 15:18

'learning difficulties' is a blanket term that means little in any case.
What is the issue with your child?

Original poster
coff33pot · 12/12/2011 15:26

emotional & behavioural difficulties
Sensory Processing Difficulties
Social Skills Difficulties
Writing Difficulties

Has been permanently 1 to 1 since start school.

Currently waiting second oppinion for ASD/AS & Tourettes but that cannot count without dx.

OP posts:
Original poster
coff33pot · 12/12/2011 15:39

Also limited engagement with learning activities. Basically concentration, and interaction difficulties.

OP posts:
moondog · 12/12/2011 16:25

Well I can't comment on your son's issues but I can tell you unequivocally, as one who knows the COP like the back of my hand, that she is talking nonsense.

Original poster
coff33pot · 12/12/2011 16:45

Thank you :) Was starting to panik then thinking I had been barking up the wrong tree. She said she would have to go and look and find which section my son applied to in the COP.

I know they wont do it so I have told her to finalise and I would appeal towards tribunal. It was when I said this that she came out with her view.

They are still trying to get me to accept this statement with provision put in without times the provision should be done for plus the actual hours not showing either saying they will update as and when. Its all fishy. Tried saying he might need more when he goes juniors and they will amend then. I said the school would request more help if that is the case. I just want it writen down clear now. I am glad you told me that she was talking nonsense :)

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moondog · 12/12/2011 16:47

It sounds terribly stressful.
Have you read the COP yourself?
If not, you need to.
You need to be prepared every step of the way in a situation like this and unfortunately that means hours of reading boring documents, and highlighting important parts.

It's the only way.

Original poster
coff33pot · 12/12/2011 17:00

Yes it is stressful. Its stressful for DS as although he has 1 to 1 they are none the wiser as to what to do with him apart from contain him. So if they finalise at lease the school can start acting on some of the provision whilst I battle out the law side of things.

I am going to ipsea I think to can request a copy from that site :)

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moondog · 12/12/2011 17:03

That's the other terrible thing.
So many people are battling to get help from people who don't know what to do with these children anyway.

A double whammy

Original poster
coff33pot · 12/12/2011 17:10

the school have said he wont cope in MS without full support and they have told them this. Juniors is tougher again (my dd goes there) which is fine if you are NT but not if you struggle to communicate.

My fear is that they wont have him and then suggest special school. I have no problem with this other than that I know he is bright and wants to learn and I think SS although will help him socially to learn life skills and no doubt he will make friends, it will fail him accademically and he will be frustrated and bored as he spends his days constantly wanting to know everything about the inside of a ping pong ball iyswim.

Will get there in the end :)

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dolfrog · 12/12/2011 18:23

coff33pot

moondog has got it right

"So many people are battling to get help from people who don't know what to do with these children anyway."
the education system and those who work in it have very little idea about the different neurological needs all children may have the the different forms of support thye may need. They still live in the behaviorist 1980s unfortunately, and have yet to catch up with decades of neurological advances and understanding of how differently we can all learn.

Original poster
coff33pot · 12/12/2011 19:20

Yes dolfrog it would be an ideal world if people were honest and just plain said "I dont know" then at least you can retort with "ok so lets work together on this and come up with the best solution based on both our knowlege"

Never happen unfortunatley

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moondog · 12/12/2011 20:43

If there's one thing the 80s wasn't Dolfrog, it was behaviourist.
I wonder what gave you this idea?

Whilst I applaud your tireless attempts to disseminate research articles, it isn't going to make a great deal of difference to what happens at grassroots level.

Nigel1 · 12/12/2011 21:33

May be not but you can use the research to inform the grassroots practice. Schools dont like arguring with academic research. You normally get the "we dont do it that way here" approach. Smile and say well try this then?

moondog · 12/12/2011 21:48

There is considered to be a 20 year lag between research coming out and its findings being put into practice in schools.
In addition, very few practitioners or policy makers will be reading this stuff as it comes out.

wasuup3000 · 12/12/2011 23:20

What my sons LEA EP said just last week in regard to ASD - "IF it was a learning difficulty or something like dyslexia then the LEA would have sorted out his statement very quickly - they find Autism more difficult to understand/provide for as it is such a wide spectrum".

moondog · 12/12/2011 23:22

But that's nonsensical too as 'learning difficulty' is in itself an enormous umbrella term that means whatever the person using it wants it to mean.
Hmm

wasuup3000 · 12/12/2011 23:34

Exactly.

wasuup3000 · 12/12/2011 23:36

Basically I think she meant that the LEA didn't "get" ASD's.

moondog · 12/12/2011 23:38

LEAs don't get very much at all, it seems to me.

moondog · 12/12/2011 23:39

Anyway, she is the bloody LEA!

wasuup3000 · 12/12/2011 23:40

True!!

Original poster
coff33pot · 13/12/2011 00:09

Confused at your EP wassup!

See to me dyslexia is learning difficulty, writing skills is learning difficulty but also as I see it if someone has auditory and sensory issues that is preventing them from being able to learn and so I class that as a difficulty in learning............same thing in my boat........

The LEA should have training in all aspects of difficulty then maybe there would be a more humane approach.

OP posts:
dolfrog · 13/12/2011 04:03

moondog
"There is considered to be a 20 year lag between research coming out and its findings being put into practice in schools.
In addition, very few practitioners or policy makers will be reading this stuff as it comes out."

This partially due to a lack of pressure from either above or below motivate these people to keep pace with research, and new understanding of how we all may learn as neurological research has moved on at a very fast pace over the last couple of decades. And if parents can be better and more informed about these issues then we can hopefully radically change the current rotten and inept education system.
There needs to be an Educational Research Council along the same lines as the Medical Research Council, and hopefully move our education systems away from the clowns in politics, and lobbyist organisations promoting their own products, and many cases a really out dated understanding of complex issues.
And the standards of basic teacher training need to be radically improved, as well as those in the support fields as well.
For those who might like to have a browse around various research topics, i have put together a few links lists
some of my PubMed Research Paper Collections
The CiteULike Research Paper Collections i have found of interest
and some interesting research from RoyalSocPub Philosophical Trans B

Much of this should be included as part of the basic Teacher Training, and nearly all part of SENCo training, and others who may specialise in trying to help and support our children.
We may have to embarrass them into it, by having parents more informed about many of these issues than they are in the initial stages.

moondog · 13/12/2011 09:35

It's predominantly to do with educational 'training' establishments being dominated by people who see teaching as an art, not a science. In other words, they make it up as they go along.

Most kids learn in spite of how they are taught, not because of it.
As I have done several times already on MN, I recommend this book very highly.

Myths and Misconceptions about Teaching

I'm still interested in what grounds you have for claiming the 80s were 'behaviourist', Dolfrog.