Got copy of new amended proposed statment and yes its bollocks.......

[coff33pot]

I waited for ds to go club and dd to go to play before reading as I wanted to take it all in. Not a lot to take in :(

LA phoned me to say she was sending the attachment. But OT assess arrived today and add ons not in there yet so why the hell send it now hmm? Camhs did exactly what I told them too and rang the LA to say DS needs social skills and social stories and can they put that in the statement and that she would send a letter confirming this also said he needs a lot of extra help. Letter is sent and they will get it tom but because they didnt get it today THAT is not in there either grrrr.

SALT has had ear bashing from school, camhs and me but not response to any of us and so they cant put anything in but did say in email they would amend statetment when it gets here.

Ok and so......I am stuck. They STILL havent specified and quantified anywhere on the statement ds 25 hours and put that the 1 to 1 is solely for him as I asked. I know I was clear in my email lol that they were acting illegally as per COP in using the green paper as a guideline.

Email says they want to finalise by end of term (next week) that is there deadline.

I know I can ask for an extension so that they consider all reports that come in as they are valid to his needs. BUT I also can see that I have got to go Tribunal if I want his hours etc on this bloody statement :(

To top it all I had put back money for private salt in January if NHS one fails and today my cat hurt herself and cost me £251 and so I had to use what I had not that the poor cat can help it and she does have a posh bandage with paws on

WHAT to do now? My mind is whirling.

Well you could just let them issue final version and appeal. Then they may add in extra bits to stop it having to go to appeal. Or you could ask them to agree to mediation either before or after registering an appeal. They are more likely to do what you want with a tribunal deadline. However the downside is I have heard the waiting list for SEND is getting longer as appeals are way up this year. It sounds like they are going to issue a version to meet the deadline, but may be persuaded to issue a second version in new year.

Thanks imogen. She will get better poor thing lept off side of counter and split the whole paw pad. Amazing what it costs for stitches isnt it! Mind you DS & DD havent left her alone since I picked her up with hugs (strangulation from DS) and I am sure I physically heard her breath a sigh of relief now they are in bed

I have had great advice here but dont know if to request extension for reports or just plain take it finalised so I appeal the quantifying bit which I know I am not going to get unless I do.

sorry Agnes I didnt see your post prior to imogens:)

Yes they did say they would be willing to amend when all reports were in and I do have that in the email. I wish I could trust them to do it. She was nice on the phone and have broadened on more indepth help for his writing skills etc and how many times and 5 mins a day at so many intervals so I can see she has tried. But she is avoiding the acutal specifying of the hours on this statement and that is the main issue I am worried about as I dont think they will amend that in a hurry so to speak.

Another question.......If my area is part of this pilot thing for green paper.

I have seen and been told here you can opt out. Soooo if I email and tell the LA that I wish to opt out of the green paper and ask them now to abide by the SENCOP and specify and quantify as it is supposed to be?

They are using the excuse that they have been told not to put hours etc on statements because of the green paper.

Or is this opting out business only if it all goes ahead after the pilots........

I can see me having a long thinking night lol

The Green paper is not law.......yet. LA's still have to abide by current laws.

Thanks for replying wassuup :)

I did point that out to them and that the GP was just a consultation paper only.

I feel like just plain saying "why do you like to act illegal then? you are so admit it and have done with" you know just come out with it.

I thought if they were so adamant that they have to follow it then I can excercise my right to opt out........

If they come back with well you cant because it hasnt been passed at least I can say then I rest my case so when ARE you going to follow the standing COP.......Trouble is then I suppose I will be branded a PITA and not be able to contact them or some such rubbish as has happend to some on here....:)

Coffpot

I think you're confusing too many things here.

The SEN COP contains law and guidance. They must act in accordance with those elements of the SEN COP that are statutory duties. They can ignore the rest that is just 'good practice' or guidance.

You can delay finalising until the LA has received and considered the new information but you've no guarentee that they will include any of the 'good bits' of the new in formation or that they will finally quantify.

They are more likely to concede if there is a Tribunal pending.

if it were me I would ask them to finalise but ensure i stated the reason for asking for finalisation was to lodge an appeal with SENDIST at which i would be seeking inclusion of the new reports and quantification. I would also inform them that you are prepared to continue negoitaing while the hearing is pending.

That way it doesn't look like you've rushed to Tribunal before the LA has had a chance to appease you and you have it recorded that you've tried to reach an agreement with the LA without the need for a Tribunal.

Otherwise the LA could string this out indefintely.

If you look at the DFE docs on the tender process that said they had to tell parents they could opt out.
But they might only be piloting one part - different LAs will be given different bits to pilot
What wording in the green paper are they are relying on which says hours don't need to be quantified because there was guidance very recently on writing statements (see section 13) and tbh I have not seen anything in the green paper which says this will not apply in future
And wasuup is right its not law - there is as yet no new COP, the old one still applies as does the caselaw.

I would just say if they don't quantify and specify you will appeal but perhaps they can point you to the wording they are relying on in saying the current COP and guidance does not apply. We won at tribunal on not specifying and quantifying and the LA were strongly criticised for not doing so.

You are right WetAugust is is getting confusing. Plus I guess I am dealing with fighting for ds dx alongside this mess.

It is late so I am probably not thinking straight but the Officer did say "they have been told not to specify and quantify on statements anymore and it is to do with the green paper that they now have. She didnt quote any sections of the paper to back her up.

Agnes thank you for that link. Reading section 13 brings me to what the officer said on the first call I made. She said that what they do now is quantify the "hours worth" all in the provision. ie. 5 mins worth, 15 mins worth of........so that it TOTALS to the agreed funding hours. My reply to her was that this statement doesnt even do that!

So I think that THEY are doing it this way (quantifying) to avoid actually stating DS is to have 25hours 1 to 1 TA support for him. At least that is how I am reading between the lines when reading those guidelines. Like they are using it as a loophole and partly following the rules?

Incidently the new amended one still only shows 1hr and approx 40 mins a day quantified time The rest is all woolly, its good but woolly and there is a whole lot more coming from these reports.

To me IF they are going to do it this way they should still put on the statement something to the affect of. the OVERALL times shown in the summarised provision, amount to 25 hours per week. As such DS will be provided with an allocated TA solely for him on a 1 to 1 basis, to provide this provision something along those lines anyway you think?

I will be appealing

"It is late so I am probably not thinking straight but the Officer did say "they have been told not to specify and quantify on statements anymore and it is to do with the green paper that they now have. She didnt quote any sections of the paper to back her up".

I would ask this person to put this in writing. It is all too clear to me that they are acting completely outside the law here as it still stands. This green paper they're using is nowhere near becoming law yet but they're treating it as their get out clause. They still have a statutory responsibility to you, they cannot wriggle out of their responsibilities.

I would finalise the statement asap and appeal to SENDIST for both lack of specifying and quantifying of DS's statement. IPSEA have useful information on their website re such appeals.

Pathfinder LAs are still subject to the existing law, re: quantifying and specifying. See 8.1 here media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/s/single%20plan%20and%20assessment%20pathfinder%20itt.pdf

They undoubtedly know this and are just trying it on.

sorry to hijack your thread but I don't want to be too easily searched.

What do you do if the tribunal is LATE in giving it's judgement? Ours is now very overdue and I'm stressing about it. Is it a good or a bad sign? Is it to be expected? How long after the 10 working day deadline do you leave it to chase? A week or 2? What's the ettiquette?

I thought the tribunal was the one bit of the process that adhered to deadlines and the rules and I was an unrepresented first timer.

If anyone has any words of reassurance I wouldn't half appreciate it!

Well I have spoken to IPSEA and they say the same (which I expected them to) as you guys. I told them what I had done so far and I got a pat on the back So I am patting MN on the back for all the advice as its all of you that should have it!

I am now going to send an email as per wetaugust post. And it looks like I am off to Tribunal sigh.

I am extremely pissedoff.com but it sounds from ipsea convo that cornwall council are one of THOSE councils :( And I cant let them get away with it at the expense of ds. Trouble is I am also scared to death I will let ds down as the thought of being infront of a tribunal of people.......well lets just say I dont like being in the front of anything and always freak out.

Can anyone help Bochead?? (hijack away bochead I hope you get some advice :))

Coff, if you get there you will manage the tribunal. It is indeed a scary thing but you are an adult and doing it ti protect a small boy from being scared. When you look at it like that it is a no brained and actually when you get there it isn't all that scary on the day.

There is no 'they' in the LA. If they ever say 'they have told us' write immediately asking 'who?' and get their names.

Boch. It doesn't mean much. The tribunal panels are actually pretty junior so they coukd be reading up on the law if they aren't experienced.

Bochead - the general rule is 2 to 3 weeks. If you have heard nothing after 3 weeks ring SEND and ask for the Decisions Team quoting the appeal number and ask for an update. The clerk will email the Judge which may ease the issue along.