RE: Drinking orange coloured water while at Kindergarten??

[Bagpipes]

Hello everyone - How would you feel, if you had been told a couple of days later, that your son or daughter had drunk 3 glasses of orange coloured water at kindergarten?? Apparently it was put out for water play - not for drinking, but my son will try to drink anything regardless of colour. I was told - that my son had been told not to drink it, but as soon as a teacher moved away, he ' chose to drink it' ( He is 4yrs old and is Down Sydrome) WHY didn't they try and encourage him to do something else - NO they left him there infront of the water trough!! The reason I know this now, is he was being observed by our psychologist - who told me today "I didn't intervene - just wanted to see what he would do" UMMMMM well, when he got home from kindy that day wow he was in the worst mood I have seen him in such a long time. I was not a happy mum !!!!!!

That is so true coppertop. Reading one of jimjams earlier posts on here, I could remember the first nursery my dd went to. She had just turned two and had only just started toddling around, she couldn't get on and off furniture anbd the like. When I picked her up they said she didn't want to join in with the activity so they put her on a beanbag and she seemed happy there so they left her there for the whole activity and longer. She wouldn't have even attemmpted to get off it let alone know how to. That made me feel really sad and its making me upset now just thinking about it

FIO2- I so know where you are coming from. We removed ds1 from his first nursery after I turned up to find him sitting on a chair in a room by himself humming to himself- all the other children were playing next door. My mum was with me she said "poor little thing sat there by himself" and the woman in charge (deputy of the nursery) said "oh he likes it there". yeah right (no-one had told him he could get down form the table- he's obedient if nothing else!) He never went back. Still makes me upset now to think of how they treated him.

And he has a lovely wonderful nurseru now and they woudln't let anyone drink 3 glasses of coloured water.

FM I agree with you- if I was in a nursery as a visitor I would stop a child doing that- can't believe the psych just watched while 3 glasses went down. My son would drink the entire bath and swimming pool if he could, he gets odd sips in but is constantly told not to.

jimjams its awful isnt it. The other thing is I thought maybe I was being over sensitive to the situation, it was only when I found mumsnet and listened to other peoples experiences I realised I wasnt being unreasonable.

Can I ask your opinions please The nursery ds goes too is brillant and dd used to go there with no problems. But one of the assisstants who I was particually annnoyed with at this ' first' nursery is working at ds' nursery now. My instinct is to take him straight out. She lives 2 doors up with her mother (who is a busybody) and one of the things they say about dd is that she is the way she is because I dont look after her properly. Should I trust my instincts?

It would be a shame to take her out if they are good in every other way. Can you have a word with the manager? Is it possible that she could be kept apart form your dd - (it wouldn't be possible in ds1's but I know a lot of nursery's are divided into different rooms by age). How influential was this person in your decision to leave the other place?

Its ds's nursery jimjams(not dd's) She isnt in his room but I know sometimes they swap. She was the main reason really although I like he, its her mum really - B*CH from hell

Thanks dinosaur and jimjams maybe I should just sit tight-we are moving soon by the look of it. Its just when its my kids I just feel so over protective

She sounds a complete bloody horror, fio, and ignorant to boot. I would agree about not being too hasty though, especially if you'll be moving fairly soon (or have I got that wrong?). If you are, then maybe it would be better to stick it out rather than risk disrupting your ds twice?

Oops, cross posted!

thats what my dh says tanum Yes we are moving sorry if I am confusing you all - I never preview my post!

Hi everyone - Wow I am surprised with all your comments. Firstly - this drinking water wasn't a huge issue for me!!! My DS is been observed for other behavioural issues: bullying other children is the main problem I have with him. He deliberately attacks children -He is NOT provoked, and sometimes puts his arms around their throats and he has to be removed from the child - won't release on his own accord. So NO this orange drinking water is not a huge issue at ALL. But, I have other issues with the kindergarten regarding his care, and lack of it.

JENIE: Unfortuately your comments reflect alot in the same way as my psychologist - She felt it all amusing too - She found him to be so 'crafty and clever" BUT she was missing the whole point!!!!!!!!!! My son, won't stop he has complusive issues, he won't stop eating or drinking anything that he shouldn't. He is currently really into "touching and playing with bowel motions YUK!!!", he tries to drink is own urine. So, as you can see - I am not impressed at all - that he was allowed to continue doing this - When he is known, that he does not and will not stop doing 'acts' such as these. HE must be removed and redirected!!!! BUT this does not happen, unless he has a support worker in the kindergarten with him.

Yep, I agree my psychologist is UMMMMM well, on another planet and yes she has 2 young children of her own. She has been "highly" recommended UMMMMMMMM I am lost for words - sorry.

PS: By the way, I have no other type of early intervention to use -this is the only one offered for Down Syndrome children.

Bagpipes, have nothing useful to say but lots of love.

Bagpipes- obviouly I have no idea of the system in NZ, but is there any chance of having a full time support worker? I know what you mean about compulsions- my son is the same with bath water. We also rejected our local school partly because it has stairs- and he absolutely cannot tolerate anyone or anything on stairs- he has to throw them/it off- we thought it had the potential to cause loas of problems.

Where are you in NZ? Did already ask you- and was it Christchurch? Beautiful city, but I can imagine lacking in support.

Bagpipes, I would be deeply upset if I were you and I am upset anyway! Aside from the water being orange or not and whether that had any affect, when a child with a learning disability engages in inappropriate behaviour they need someone to try to help them understand, e.g. that the water is not for drinking. If that is not possible someone needs to prevent him from drinking it (redirect). It sound like they are not supervising him enough or trying to interact with him at all. They obviously think its OK or they wouldn't have done it when the EP was visiting. He has communication difficulties too so just telling him not to do something is pathetic, what sort of ongoing communication strategies are they using? IMHO its like they couldn't care less if he's doing something inappropriate if it doesn't bother anyone else. If it was something more "serious" (Jimjams' plug) or it affected others they'd be in there like a shot and he probably wouldn't learn what he had done "wrong" in that case either. This story and fio2's about the beanbag and Jimjams' one about her son being left in the other room all boil down to a question of respect to me. Bagpipes, I really feel for you with your obviously hard job of trying to get them to get their heads out of their a++es and find some effective and ongoing ways to teach your son and help him communicate. We too use visual schedules and visual cues, choices etc plus PECs and Makaton. It sounds to me like they should be considering all or some of these but I expect YOU will have to suggest it to them.......
Fio2, I agree, don't let one member of staff drive you out of a good nursery, especially if you are moving. I understand though about that deep pit when you're scared your chlid isn't being treated right, your child can't tell you and you're not sure if you're finding out enough from the people who are there all day

Thanks again everyone for all your support - Yes I am in Christchurch. Once DS starts primary school (30hours per week) The maximum support he can get is 15hours per week I am dreading this school start - even considering a Special School for him - BUT everyone continues to encourage you to send your child to be mainstreamed. How many children/preschoolers per class do you have and how many teachers?? In DS's Kindergarten (3 afternoons per week) it is 45 children to 3 teachers. 2004 Jan (end) he is going into morning kindergaren, which is 4 times per week - children are from 4.2years till they are 5 years old. Afternoon kindy is aged from 3.6years to 4.2years. They use one large room for all children - no separating of children.
Thanks again - I will repost Tuesday night late !!!(probably Monday UK time LOL) with the report from my Psychologist - ummm just can't wait to hear what she thinks of my wee man.

Just wanted to say sorry that this has been a nightmare week or so for you....as a mum with a little one with Down's syndrome I can understand fully where you are coming from....

For those who say it is only coloured water - perhaps but what about the next time when it may be something else - the electrical socket.... just saying no is not good enough!!!! Just saying don't do that - is also not good enough.....

The behaviour of the nursery and the psychologist was inappropriate and negligent....

Given what you have said Bagpipes I would suspect that the behaviour of the teacher is what happens all the time and you have to wonder what else is going on.

I would call them on it and tell them you want a full report everyday of what has happened.

Dd attends nursery - but she is only 15 months and sot he nurse/child ratio is higher - 1 to 3... however - my dd has a book with information in - including makaton signs for the nursey to refer to and write in should they need to. I get a little report card everyday telling me what dd has done, eaten and so on. ( she is there all day)

I think as a mum of a child with SN that is the least you can expect. He is not being given and equality of access to education nor the appropriate support for him to progress and develop appropriate.

Probably not much of a help but my thoughst are with you.

15 hours? Is that a maximum you can get in mainstream? ( or is that something they've told you?). I told them (being the LEA) right from the start that ds1 would not be going to mainstream without full time one to one- as he would not be safe (also told them he might hit other children- he wouldn't but they worry about that more than him doing himself damage). We now have our statement with the full time support written in and everyone has said "ooh I've never seen a statement with so much support written in". Well yes but then 4 years ago they weren't trying to mainstream children like my son. My attitude is "they" want him in mainstream so they'll have to support it properly. Having sai that I know that the situation for public services in NZ is even worse than here (or at least it was 10 years ago- I assume it hasn't changed). I would question 15 hours a week though- as it wouldn't be enough for my son- whose level of need sounds similar to yours.

My son is in a class of 30 at school. There is a teacher, a general LSA for all the children and a seperate full tim LSA just for him. At nursery there are 25 children a session sometimes all together sometimes divided into groups. The staff ratio is ? not sure actually age 2+ is that 5:1? but again he has a full time one to one support worker.

The specials schools here seem to operate on about 3:1 ratio which I don't think is enough for a non-verbal child.

Thanks eidsvold and jimjams - great help at a time like this
Yes, Jimjams - apparently I will be very, very lucky to receive even 15 hours, as my son has pretty good speech compared to other DS children. We were notified thru our early intervention two weeks ago, that funding will be cut once again - so some children will not be entitled to 15hours per week. When you start in mainstream school here - it all sounds really nice, supportive etc... they promise you this and that - BUT once you are in the school (all the mothers I have spoken to over the past 4 years!!) tell me - 15hours is not a permanent arrangement - if the school feels your child can cope, then funding is cut back to 10hours per week. I don't know what it is over here in NZ - but most parents who I talk with, and who have a child who is DS - feel comfortable with these hours, they say to me "but you want your child to feel as normal as possible" why draw attention by having your child supported!!!! Well this always leaves me so dumb founded - WOE my wee boy will run, and run and not return - I actually feel sick in the stomach thinking what he could get into, or up to - I find it all too worrying - BUT most parents I know say - Hey the school will look after him. I am not convinced!! Kindergarten can't LOL. Hope everyone had a super weekend - PS it was 19degress here, supposingly the start of summer - but certainly needs to warm up a wee bit more for me, to put on my shorts. Hey the All Blacks beat South Africa - Good luck to Poms, unlucky for Scotland.

yeh shame about Scotland bagpipes - but we needed to win through although I am not looking forward to next weekend.... can we beat the All-Blacks..... oh as well as wishing Wales all the best.....