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Original poster

Proposed statement hours offered.. stressing!

29 replies

CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 13:13

I received DSs proposed statement through the door.
I've queries the Ed Psych report as it appears to read as if a page or two is missing. Also, only the main reports and my bits are attached - do they not add everything that was supplied from the initial letters, reports typed from school to get them to assess initially?

The hours reads - In order to implement DSs Individual Edulation Plan 15 hours per week of learning support assistance will be required. This support includes that which the school will continue to provide from its allocated budget, i.e. a minimum of 5 hours individual learning support assistance per week... :(

Thats what they are already giving... the reports show he needs a lot of support for his lack of attention etc. They detail he needs support at lunch and at playtime to assist with his social needs etc, ensure he eats, drinks and dresses appropriately or the weather! All that plus giving him class support would be more that 15 hours per week?!?

What do I do now... whats my next move?

Help gratefully accepted and appreciated.

OP posts:
bialystockandbloom · 02/12/2011 13:45

Ok, sit down and go through all the professionals' reports in detail. Highlight every single instance where they make a recommendation for a specific provision. Then go through the proposed statement, and look for any instances where the professionals' recommendations are absent.

Send back the Agree/disagree form saying you disagree, and attach a document listing all the missing recommendations.

And do the same for all other areas which you feel are inadequate or absent - on top of what the professionals have recommended - your views as parents is euqally valid, and you know him better than anyone.

If you think the hours are insufficient you must say so - and say why. Use everything you can from the professional reports to back you up.

Read Part 2 carefully too - is it accurate? Complete?

Look at the statement objectively and think does it meet his needs? Is it specified? Would someone who doesn't know him know exactly what to provide? Is it enough?

Parent PArtnership can help too (though they are not always as unbiased as they appear - they are LA employees after all). And IPSEA and SOS!SEN too.

bialystockandbloom · 02/12/2011 13:47

Oh and also - part 1 should list all the reports from all professionals consulted during the statutory assessment process. This would normally include Ed Pysch, SALT (? if relevant), parents, and yes, school/nursery.

AgnesDiPesto · 02/12/2011 14:14

Look at this Guide to checking statement.
You can appeal the Statement if they won't change it.
What does school think. Do they think 15 hours is enough?
Sadly they are more likely to listen if the school kick up a fuss than if you do.

Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 14:41

Thanks bialy / Agnes.
I'll take a copy of it and go through it tonight/over the weekend then discuss it with school on Monday morning before sending in the form to the LA.
I'm glad I contest the hours - I wasn't sure if they were set and you could only argue on the description/details.
They have included all the reports incl the school one that was sent once they agreed to assess. They haven't included other paperworks such as example work pieces from DS or minutes from a 'team around the child' meeting that detailed some relevant info to back up his needs. I thought everything that was sent in from day 1 would be included but thats no that case.
I think there is a lot of support in the actually statement but just glancing there are bits and pieces they have omitted. Like I said, there is now way that all the help we are being told he needs across all reports is only 15hours. SENCO will definately be on my side... got a huge fight on my hands.

OP posts:
Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 14:43

Sometimes I think my hands are like 'thing' from the Adams family - typing words I haven't said in my head. Like Actually.. I meant actual and there is a that when it should be a the. I haven't even got predictive text as on laptop! Xmas Confused

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EllenJaneisnotmyname · 02/12/2011 16:56

Can't really add anything much, go through it with a fine tooth comb matching needs from advices to statement, then needs to provision, as already suggested, print off/ photocopy and use highlighters. If they have properly specified 15 hours that's at least a good start, you and school have to argue your case to increase. It's the hardest thing to get them to change, though, I have to be honest. Sad It's what actually costs money. But it can be done. Often, IME, hours get increased if DC is causing disruption with what's currently provided and I bet LA will be arguing for a 'suck it and see' policy. LAs seem to be initially providing the minimum they think they can get away with and hoping parents don't contest it. They don't know you well yet! Good luck, Cinnamon. Smile

coff33pot · 02/12/2011 17:19

You could argue and so could the school that lunch and playtimes will take up about 6 ish hours? (if lunch is an hour and then there is morning play?) So it will only leave 9 hours to fit everything else in.

Hopefully the school will help you in supporting a request in increase in hours :)

GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 17:29

He's not got 15 hours. He's only got 5 hours.

Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 17:40

5hr? please elaborate... Thanks

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GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 17:50

Your last line that begins i.e is all you have to rely on. The rest is covered by the class TA simply being there but not necessarily working with your ds.

GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 17:53

I mean 15 hours suPport assistance coukd be written into every child's statement in the class but it would still be only one LSA covering all children.

You needs the statement to say 15 hours support exclusively for him.

Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 17:55

Hmm I read it that they are saying 15hrs and from those 15hrs a minimum of 5 must be provided from the school budget?!

OP posts:
Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 17:56

cross post.

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Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 18:02

Oh Shock twisty wording.. I see how its reading.
15hrs support overall which doesn't say for him specifically and 5hrs min individual support.
Feck it! :(

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GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 18:33

Sorry CP. Maybe I have it wrong and they 'meant' 15 hours just fir him. But if they DID, the won't mind changing it to my wording will they.

Don't feel 'done' btw. This appears to be the normal route to provision now.

Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 18:45

Thanks Gloria.
I know its their way of trying to make things hard and put me off, I was just hoping it wasn't as bad a fight. It looks like I need to grease up and get my gloves out for a really long, hard round.
I'm tired of doing this and was hoping, just a little hope that we might get a nice person doing it.
I need to relax in front of the fire with some Ice-cream and House :) and switch off from it all tonight I think. I can't copy it tonight as I'm out of paper so will look again tomorrow. I've got tons of other SN paperwork to fill in and some...

OP posts:
GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 18:54

It coukd mean in order ti implement the IEP, 15 hours of learning support would be required (to help the teacher keep the classroom tidy).

If you ask on the phone for the 15 hours to be specified for him, they will swear blindly that it already does and that anyone with any intelligence coukd see that, so don't be swayed.

Sorry. But I've been there. It ended in tribunal where we won the specification.

coff33pot · 02/12/2011 19:10

When you do check it off. check all the provision side and see if the provision to meet the objectives is quantified and by who. ie. 20 mins social skills time, 30 mins writing excercises.....and if it says by the TA.

Reason I am saying is because my LA (bless em!) tried to say that DS 25 hours support was quantified in all the provisions to the objectives and totalled to 25 hours............It didnt of course as they had twice a week, once a week so that fell out of the window.

If it is specified correctly see what it mounts up too. And if it says individual 1 to 1 work total that separately to see if its just 5 hours.

Play detective Grin

Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 19:22

There are no other times detailed within the statement. Just details on things to be put in place such as 'Adult encouraging the development of his communication and interaction skills within real life experience across the day' or ' Adult support during periods of unstructured activities, such as when in the playground and at meal times' and 'Frequent short breaks throughout the day to refocus.....' which will need support!? 'monitoring during lunch...' and 'monitoring during weather....' (sensory issues and reulation problems) plsu things like 'using a word processor for some works or a scribe on occasions' and access to a mentor at the start and end of a session to discuss his work and understanding!
No detail on who is to do it, how much time, when they are to do it etc.. its all very vague. They just appear to have copied the objectives from the reports with the knowledge that they know we'll go through it a basically write it for them to get it all right. just makes me so Angry

OP posts:
GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 19:30

Adult support during lunchtimes means the same as make sure there is a dinner lady in the playground. Sorry again, but I think you get the picture now so I'll stop bleating on.

coff33pot · 02/12/2011 19:42

Gloria is right :( From what you have put in your last post everything can still be done from a distance via a whole class TA or dinnerlady.

Should read DS shall have, frequent short breaks of 10 mins after however many mins of learning time to refocus and regulate himself, supported by his allocated TA?

I think you are going to have to pick this one to bits and rebuild sorry :(

GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 19:50

I'm really really sorry about my posts. I can be a miserable decker for sure but I promise I'm just trying to help. And the reason I'm not fuming on your behalf us simply because I've just seen it all before and probably desensitised to it. I am cross for you but it's more like a frustrated sigh.

It's not that they think you're stupid. They would and do treat all the same be you a teacher, SENCO, lawyer etc. It is the process and it is designed to wear you down.

Original poster
CinnamonPretzel · 02/12/2011 19:59

I'm tough :) I can take it.
Thanks for your help guys - appreciated.
I'll rip into it, break it down into minuscule pieces, question every incy word, highlight all objectives from the reports and estimate approx timings with school on details based on that, then throw it back at them and see what they do...
I think I've got more than a round to go - bring it on! :o

OP posts:
bialystockandbloom · 02/12/2011 20:55

I'm sorry I kind of missed the key part of your OP; ie the hours/specification.

The vagueness of the amount of hours, and exactly how those hours will be spent, is all too familiar to me. This is what ds's proposed statement looked like. We went through it in agonising detail, sent back all our required changes and specifications. It was barely amended.

Except, bizarrely, for an increase from 15 hours to 25 hours - we hadn't even asked for an increase in hours, simply that the hours that were listed be specified Confused

Anyway, his final statement is still just as woolly as yours ("access to adult support" etc). We are going to tribunal.

The most important rule of thumb for statements is that they are specified and quantified.

If you haven't done so, read the SENCoP (SEN code of practice) - can find it easily on google.

The Ace link that Agnes gave earlier is also extremely useful.

GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady · 02/12/2011 21:15

Lol at
LA: ds will get 15 hours of nothing
Bialy: What? Specify the nothing.
LA: oh alright, he can have 25 hours of nothing then!